Putting a 560SEC motor and trans in a 420sel - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Roncallo · #16 11-29-2007, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim_Sorrow

SO, i've managed to talk the guy into letting me come on down and dig through the old sec while i'm there

. He says he will throw in the ECU and any relays for free! gotta love it. And he's going to do a compression test as well (just to be safe) i guess the motor and trans have about 150,000 mi, But if they were well taken care of as they appear to have been they've got at least another 150,000 in them. I'll be heading over there this Sunday to take a look (and hopefully grab some other tid bits i've been searching for) I'll let you know how it goes... And if i back out, i'll let you know where it is

. haha.

A quick question guys, I've heard that the horsepower on this thing can range from 230 to 300 stock. What kind of hp am i looking at with the 1986 560sec?
And while i'm at it, I heard their are quite a few performance mods as well... Where would i look for such products? Performance plus doesn't seem to offer much but stock equipment.

As far as the install, the guy i was talking to about it didnt speak very good English

but 've got a friend who can talk to him and hopefully work it out. Then again i could always try to talk the guy selling into installing

Thanks again guys, keep tossing me info and i'll keep updating you.

Make sure you get the wire harness. It's $1700 for a new one and there are three part numbers available for my 1986 560SL.

Adam might be right it may be a non issue but if you can get it for free it's worth the trouble. The one in my 560SL only tooka about an hour to remove.

John Roncallo

Grim_Sorrow · #17 11-29-2007, 09:49 PM

MORE GOOD NEWS!!!

The guy i will be procuring the motor from gave those installers a call. They have agreed to do the entire swap for just $560.oo

... hahaha
SO, that means 1200 for the motor and trans, 560 to install the 560sec motor and trans, And according to PerformancePlus just 160 in extras like new mounts and such. This puts the whole swap at a grand total of ... THATS RIGHT FOLKS...

just $1,920 And no pennies.

I think this will be one of the best investments I've made as of yet.
Then again there's always something.

eh, anyway. It doesn't seem as though it could work out any better.

Oh and i will grab that wiring harness....... just in case

Jim B. · #18 11-29-2007, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim_Sorrow

A quick question guys, I've heard that the horsepower on this thing can range from 230 to 300 stock. What kind of hp am i looking at with the 1986 560sec?
And while i'm at it, I heard their are quite a few performance mods as well... Where would i look for such products? Performance plus doesn't seem to offer much but stock equipment.

Since the gray market was pretty much dead by 1986, you're almost certainly looking at a US spec. 560 engine, and they had 238 hp.

2nd generation (1986 up) Euro 560 engines included the KAT (catylyst engine) good for 272 hp, and the prized ECE 560, good for 300 hp.

Take a look at www.mbcoupes.com and search the archives around there, for performance ideas. It's a performance oriented website with regard to the 560 SEC. Be sure and read the article about the full Euro conversion to the Jack Middlebrook 560SEC. I have seen that car (in Las Vegas once) and it is as good as advertised. I think the present owner of it is in Atlanta or someplace near there.

It would be harder to do very much better than one with an ECE 560 engine, wider crossovers, Euro - spec tri - Y headers, downpipes, stainless steel mandrel bent headers, (no cats, or a high-performance one, but keeping the O2 sensor) a good 2:82 ltd. slip Gleason-Torsen diff and first gear start module (if you can find them), all exiting out of a new Remus exhaust (the Remus alone gives 2 hp right there).

If you are serious, about this, then go to the W126 section, on www.benzworld.com and check out the "Remus exhaust" sticky at the top, in there. The finishing touches of a group buy RIGHT NOW is being worked out with Remus to put back into production a one-time-only Benzworld members group buy on a W126 Remus muffler, which had been long out of production. They are just about to do special run of these, by Benzworld member request. This could be a real stroke of luck for anyone interested...

Then there the eibach and H & R lowering springs, and wheels.
A few things can be done....

Never mind chipping it. That can't really be done with the Bosch KE-Jetronic in any meaningful way that translates to any useable power....

t walgamuth · #19 11-29-2007, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dee8go

Is the engine bay the same on all of those cars? I guess there might be differences in the from suspension from the 380 to the 560. That would be more weight, wouldn't it?

The weight should be about the same. The 560 probably is a little heavier but I bet only 10 to 20 #.

Tom W

Hit Man X · #20 11-30-2007, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300EVIL

The only real difference between the M116 and the M117 is the crank stroke. I'd try the newer wiring harness that's already installed before swapping to the older one the SEC. I believe it's a big job compared to the newer wiring harnesses with core connectors. Like 5+ hours!

Wrong, cylinder bores are different between the 4.2 and 5.0. Intake valve diameters are also different... too much valve on a small bore shrouds it, hurting port velocity and torque. The 5.0 grew to 5.6 via longer crank and the rods/pistons changed accordingly. Piston compression height...

Next, yes it'll drop right in. I was going to but never got around to doing it on my 420, my 380SE-Euro has an M117-Euro 5.0L.

All the senders and whatnot are the same on the early motors. '89 or whatever they went to a diff fan pin setup. Just be sure to get the EZL (driver fender area) and I'd get the EGR computer (pass kickpanel) also.

SINCE the motor is out. Please take the time to reseal everything you can and 100% do timing chain guide rails and the chain itself.

You will also need to transfer the SLS pump block off plate from the 420 to the 560. Consider trying to find even the simple Euro dual manifolds for the M117, they're around. This will help power output quite a bit.

t walgamuth · #21 11-30-2007, 07:31 AM

I believe the 117 has a taller deck on the block too which would make the intake manifold different too. but they are a direct swap ...a 500 or 560 will bolt into the 380 equipped car just fine.

I believe the exhaust manifolds are different but will bolt up fine.
so if you swap them you should to it in pairs.

Tom W

Hit Man X · #22 11-30-2007, 07:57 AM

Correct, deck heights are different. Think 221/260/289/302 Ford vs 351W Ford.

t walgamuth · #23 11-30-2007, 09:37 AM

actually I was thinking of just that! old farts us.

Tom W

Dee8go · #24 11-30-2007, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

The weight should be about the same. The 560 probably is a little heavier but I bet only 10 to 20 #.

Tom W

So, no need to make any changes to the front suspension or anything like that?

I can't believe you can get an engine like that and have it installed for under two grand. That sounds like a real deal to me.

t walgamuth · #25 11-30-2007, 04:19 PM

I would think not.

Tom W

Grim_Sorrow · #26 11-30-2007, 07:05 PM

well he says
"the engine is complete with all wiring, exhaust manifolds and exhaust piping to the cat, etc ...."
so it should be pretty straight forward. I have custom exhaust from the cat back already so it's pretty much all there. As far as the EZL and EGR... thanks, hahaha, probably wouldn't have thought to grab them. AND the timing chain has already been changed. The engine is a power house, runs like a champ. So it's set i'm going to take a peak at the motor on sunday.

ANY TIPS BEFORE I GO WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
you guys have been more than helpful so far.

FLYNAVY · #27 11-30-2007, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim_Sorrow

well he says
"the engine is complete with all wiring, exhaust manifolds and exhaust piping to the cat, etc ...."
so it should be pretty straight forward. I have custom exhaust from the cat back already so it's pretty much all there. As far as the EZL and EGR... thanks, hahaha, probably wouldn't have thought to grab them. AND the timing chain has already been changed. The engine is a power house, runs like a champ. So it's set i'm going to take a peak at the motor on sunday.

ANY TIPS BEFORE I GO WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
you guys have been more than helpful so far.

When you pull it, try and label everything on the harness. Once you start working with it, things will make sense, but at first it is daunting if you don't kind of know where things go

Grim_Sorrow · #28 12-02-2007, 12:58 PM

so this is the motor and tranny i'm getting, the exact one out of this exact car

Video!!!

on my way there in about 2 hours...

wish me luck...

(ANY FINAL TIPS BEFORE I BUY???)

Grim_Sorrow · #29 12-03-2007, 04:25 AM

I did it, 1100 cash... It was beautifull and worth every damn penny. Thing looks like it was just rebuilt. The rocker arms and internal tidbits were spotless

basically brand spanking new! On top of that I ran a compression test.... 170, 170, 169, 170, 172, 170, 167, 169...

Not bad, in fact... incredibly good. Out of curiosity we ran a test on the 2 blown cylinders in my current motor (the two with blown valve seals) and they scored 90..

.. 90psi. Poor things just limping along. So i'll probably be selling the motor and trans from the 420 dirt cheap if anyones interested... It just needs a valve job and i'd reseal everything while your at it. Just throwing it out their in case anyone could use it... just e-mail me an offer and i'll probably take it epic562@hotmail.com

But otherwise, I'm ordering the bits and pieces i'll need like gaskets and motor mounts from Performance Plus tomorrow. Should have them all delivered by friday and hopefully the guys will be able to install it over the weekend... so much to do, so little time.

so keep tossing advice! and i'll do my best to get ahold of a digital camera so i can get you guys some pictures

. The vid i posted earlier is quicktime by the way... so if you don't have it or cant play it i'm sorry. BUT IT SOUNDS GREAT!

Grim_Sorrow · #30 12-05-2007, 07:28 PM

SO,

The parts i ordered are set to arrive tomorrow. I ordered them from http://www.performanceproducts4benz.com
They are having a sale right now... 10% off all orders over 100, 15% off all over 250... so it's become even cheaper.

SO, the parts arrive tomorrow, the engine arrives friday, and the guys want to install it on friday!
That means. 1100 for the motor and transmission, 150 in parts, and 550 for the install (ten bucks less than they quoted me

). That brings the new grand total to

$1,800 and ZERO PENNIES!!!

If all goes well i should be driving it around town this saturday!

SO, last minute tips would be appreciated ... anything special i should know about the motor? any differences in maintenance?

As far as the old motor and trans, I've got to get rid of it. Low ball me, I dont care... so long as you can come get it

. As i said before all it really needs is a valve job on the drivers side. JUST COME GET IT... lol
I'm in long beach California

Thanks guys, picks coming soon!