500E owners - here's my next question:

My car is running great! I've done the timing chain, the Mobil 1, the check valve in the oil filter, the cooling fan mod, the PAD chip, the K&N filters, and the little details (cosmetic and service) to make it look pretty and go like mad. I've got the Evo II wheels and Bridgestone S03 tires at 245/45-17. Brakes are next.

With the 17" wheels, I realize I have some options. I'm really very happy with the stock braking performance. It's a daily driver, not a racer, so I'm not worried about on-track brake fade like some of you have experienced. I do deal with several miles of steep hills every day. I like the look of aftermarket cross-drilled rotors. I've read about the advantages of cross-drilled and slotted designs. I also like the idea of going to 600SL brakes.

So what have my fellow 500E owners done to their cars? And at what cost? Should I just get a dealer stock brake job? Or get those gold-colored cross-drilled rotors from PAD/Performance Products? Do they save unsprung weight? What's the best pad available that will: stop great, reduce the dreaded brake dust, and not squeal? Mintex? Stock? Should I get Brembo rotors and calipers (and have to get specialty parts for every brake job?) If I go the 600SL route, do I replace rotors and calipers both front and rear? Where can I find more info on this mod? Do they bolt on? Is there an unsprung weight penalty? Do I get the parts from a dealer or a junkyard? For that matter, can I get the drilled rotors from PAD/Performance Products for a 600SL specification? What happens to the ABS when I start changing the brake system? What happens to pedal pressure (brake boost) and brake feel? What have you all experienced, good or bad, and what else do you recommend?

Finally, I spoke to Performance Products the other day, and I was told that the braided stainless steel brake lines are not DOT approved for my car. Has anyone heard this one before? I think the SS lines look sharp. Do they really improve performance?

__________________
Mark Stetson
1995 E320 Wagon Moonstone Grey/Parchment 106K mi.
2007 E63 AMG Graphite/designo 75K mi

...Phil was able dig up these part numbers for an SL600 brake conversion:

Front pads #002420152005M
Front disc #129 421 17 12 left, #129 421 18 12 right
Rear pads #002 420 05 20
Rear disc #129 421 18 12
Sensors QTY 8 #140 540 12 17
Pad pastes QTY 4 #001 989 10 51
Front calipers #001 420 00 83 left, #001 420 01 83 right
Rear calipers #001 420 37 83 left, #001 420 38 83 right

Should be in the neighborhood of $2000.00

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Rainmaker
93 500E, 43k mi, Pics of upgrade parts
Evo II Wheels on Dunlop FM901 235/45x17s
94 Facelift
RennTech CF Airbox
RennTech ASR Defeat
RennTech Chip
1st Gear Start
97 Range Rover 4.6 HSE Vitesse, Yellow, "Tonka" (sold)

This is a pretty interesting question you raised. I may do this mod on my E420+.

I have ss brake lines on this car with Mintex pads and ATE SuperBlue fluid. The ss lines make for very precise pedal interface. I love it and can't wait to so modify my 16V.

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Charles Cleaver
1975 350SE + 1992 300CE-24 SportLine 5-speed + 2002 SLK320 6-speed + 1974 W114 280
1986 190E 2.3-16 (Decomm rear self-leveling suspension; Euro-code headlamps) sold
2004 Audi S4 6-spd - sold
1969 (2) and 1980 Porsche 911T, S, and SC - alas gone
1987 300SDL - Graf Spee; Euro-code headlamps; 16-inch 8-hole wheels - sold
1994 E420+(E500 suspension/E-code headlamps/PAD chip) sold
1968 250SE 4-speed (NICE car) - long gone
1962 220S 4-speed/column mount - long gone

The stainless lines I have help a little bit, but it's not a huge difference by any means.

As to your other questions, I'm in the same boat so I await the responses too! I'll likely just do 600SL/late E500 front brakes...most economical route.

And forget trying to find used...NO ONE has any. At least in the continental US.

__________________
"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" Sir Sterling Moss

Michael
2014 E63S Estate
2006 SLK55
1995 E500
1986 Porsche 944 turbo

What cooling fan mod? My E420 occasdionally runs a little warm and I hear that the radiator is small for the amount of heat generated.

__________________
Charles Cleaver
1975 350SE + 1992 300CE-24 SportLine 5-speed + 2002 SLK320 6-speed + 1974 W114 280
1986 190E 2.3-16 (Decomm rear self-leveling suspension; Euro-code headlamps) sold
2004 Audi S4 6-spd - sold
1969 (2) and 1980 Porsche 911T, S, and SC - alas gone
1987 300SDL - Graf Spee; Euro-code headlamps; 16-inch 8-hole wheels - sold
1994 E420+(E500 suspension/E-code headlamps/PAD chip) sold
1968 250SE 4-speed (NICE car) - long gone
1962 220S 4-speed/column mount - long gone

ATATEXAN, for the cooling fan mod. info, read the thread titled "Some Feedback" and contact ItalianBenz. I'm a happy customer. JimF also was involved in developing this mod. Check out his website.

Also ATATEXAN, do your Mintex pads make more or less brake dust than stock? Do they squeal? Is the pad life shorter or longer? Higher pedal effort?

More on the topic - Michael, are you saying that the later E500's shared the same brakes with the SL600? Front brakes only? Performance Products shows a front rotor part number change starting with VIN#930495. There is no part number change for the rear rotors (one part number for all years). Are the Perf Prod rotors inferior to the MB OEM parts? Or the same? Anyone try their cross-drilled rotors? ItalianBenz, you have these on your car, I think - did you put them on or did you buy it that way? Any comparative experience?

At this moment I'd be inclined to follow Michael's path, but with the cross-drilled rotors. Anyone know if this is a bolt-on conversion? Thanks for the part numbers, rainmaker. Do the calipers mount to the same mount holes?

__________________
Mark Stetson
1995 E320 Wagon Moonstone Grey/Parchment 106K mi.
2007 E63 AMG Graphite/designo 75K mi

The brake dust is considerably less than stock. I pushed them REALLY hard at a BMWCCA driving school (105MPH t 50MPH in 150 feet). I keep the wheels waxed and use Eagle One Wheel Cleaner (the safe-for-all-types) prior to washing the car. They are a tremendous improvement. Use at the driving school did not grind down the rotors as much as I expected.

Thank you for the cooling thread info.

__________________
Charles Cleaver
1975 350SE + 1992 300CE-24 SportLine 5-speed + 2002 SLK320 6-speed + 1974 W114 280
1986 190E 2.3-16 (Decomm rear self-leveling suspension; Euro-code headlamps) sold
2004 Audi S4 6-spd - sold
1969 (2) and 1980 Porsche 911T, S, and SC - alas gone
1987 300SDL - Graf Spee; Euro-code headlamps; 16-inch 8-hole wheels - sold
1994 E420+(E500 suspension/E-code headlamps/PAD chip) sold
1968 250SE 4-speed (NICE car) - long gone
1962 220S 4-speed/column mount - long gone

Charlie-which Mintex?

The E500S got Sl600 front brakes, but not the bigger rears. No proportioning valve changes or anything else I'm aware of...just front rotors/calipers/pads. Pads were the exact same size as the 300mm smaller brakes (vs 320 mm), just a slightly different set of shims (some think the composition's different, but Hendy and I smoked the different pads (both experienced bad fade) at the same time on the track, so it's a shim thing assuredly.


And I humbly suggest avoiding cross-drilled-have any fun at road events and you'll crack 'em I'd bet...remember-3850lbs dry is a heavy plaything We'll all be watching Guido closely


I'm gonna slot both fronts and rears next (using MBZ OE parts...I'll warranty 'em if I kill 'em), and am about to install cryo-treated 300mm MBZ OE non-slotted rotors on the front in preparation for the 9/8 Lime Rock event.

__________________
"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" Sir Sterling Moss

Michael
2014 E63S Estate
2006 SLK55
1995 E500
1986 Porsche 944 turbo

Wow mike. Thats nuts. I dont wante to crack them. I have friends that race porsches with cross drill. Brembo brakes they never had symptoms like that. Hmm im going to take it easy.
I was going to do some autocrossing with tour car club not full on race it, at willow . I cant afford to be braking things he he.
Plus if I dont get the suspension right its not going anywhere.

Hey Mark. Soory didnt back to you sooner. I didnt get the brembo Brakes through PAD I got them through a friend of mine who is a brembo retailer. Im actually running the stock pads on mine.
I like the way they feel. I have no brake fade what so ever..Did you like mine how they felt. I think going to the 600SL caliper is over kill. They create more sprung weight. The pads cover a little bigger surface. I wish mines retained the factory Aluminum calipers. You know the 600SL are not Aluminum. For everyday driving our brakes are fine. But if your going to be going to willow and laguna. Then I would recomend the bigger brakes.
I installed the stainless steel lines. I notice such an inprovement.
Some others may say different,but it was a gain in my book. Also I power flushed the entire brake system including the ASR charger pump. That helped alot. I think you need to get a set of stainless steel lines. PAD has a sale I think 15% off right now labor weekend. I had my tint redone today. If you ever want to tint I got a guy who does awesome work. Im installing H&R's and rolling the fenders this weekend. Hopefully That will eliminate the unwanted unstable feeling in the rear. Well good luck in what you decide to do.

Guido,

Yeah, I'd DIE if I was eating tires$$$ Totally understand.

Something's wacky-what the heck, do the roll bar bushings, 'cuz it'll force you to do the rear subframe bushings, or at least look at them. Then properly align the beast so you know where you are.

Don't know what the hell else to offer

Anywho, as to Brembo Porsche brakes-they're cast with the holes, so likely are more durable. Are yours?

__________________
"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" Sir Sterling Moss

Michael
2014 E63S Estate
2006 SLK55
1995 E500
1986 Porsche 944 turbo

Well I would think the Brembo engineers. Would think of doing it. They not factory disc. There the brembo racing series disc. Im just running stock pads becuase I like the way the pedal feels.
Mark and I had a little rally venture last weekend. He drove my car.
You have alot of good ideas micheal. If rolling the fenders cures the problem I wont have to cut off meat off the wheel. 10 mm too much I over exggerated that one. The subframe mounts look good I checked them out months ago when I was over looking the car before purchase.. I appreciate all you guidance and input its all going to work out.

Guido, I noticed no difference in your brakes when we swapped cars, but I was paying more attention to your suspension and engine. I also wasn't pushing the brakes, either. They felt fine. I've been thinking a lot about why your suspension felt so different from mine, and I don't have a lot to add. I think it might be a question of balance. Mine being all stock, with no tire clearance issues to distract you, results in a balanced package as originally conceived and developed. You've got different size wheels and tires front and rear, mine are the same front and rear. You've got those Lorinser springs in the rear; are they in the front as well? I think it's a good idea to put in a matched set front and rear as you are planning with your new H&R's. I would follow Michael's suggestion of at least replacing the roll bar bushings and all the other convenient rubber parts. With your car being lowered, I really can't imagine that your car rolls more than mine. Maybe with your front end planted so firmly with those Konis, it just seemed that way. Do you think it would help to match the spring pad height front and rear? Maybe going through the hydraulic suspension once again would help - a re-flush with new accumulators. Those accumulators sure get accused of a lot of sins in various threads here. Is the rear end camber correct? Finally, I think that your Michelin Pilot Sports and my Bridgestone Potenza S-03's are the two best tires available for our cars - but could it be that we were feeling a difference in the tires? How are your inflation pressures? I run mine at 37psi front and 34psi rear. Sometimes it's the simple things...

Speaking of the simple things, can't you use the hydraulic suspension to set the ride height in the back? Could you therefore raise it up enough to solve your fender clearance issue?

Now, back to the brakes: are the Performance Products/PAD cross-drilled rotors made by Brembo? Do you suggest that there are different performance grades in the Brembo line? Has anyone ever seen cracked rotors on these cars before? Your point about added unsprung weight is very true: I really don't want to increase it again. The EVO II and Bridgesone 245/45-17 combination added 3 lbs. per corner over stock (but it was well worth it!). Adding brake weight would certainly increase the ride harshness even more. Anyone feel this to be an issue?

So right now, I'm feeling like ATATEXAN's mods are best - just pads and ss brake lines. Those Brembo's on Guido's car sure look cool, though!

__________________
Mark Stetson
1995 E320 Wagon Moonstone Grey/Parchment 106K mi.
2007 E63 AMG Graphite/designo 75K mi

Michael, the pad p/n is at home in the file. I can retrieve same next week. They are nothing out of the ordinary, however. Just the standard Mintex pads for an E420 but they certainly worked well on that track which has ten turns in 1.75 miles! As I said yesterday there was very good performance with little wear either to the rotors or the pads. The pad wear sensors were TOTALLY fried by heat! I removed them and check pad wear visually.

I contend a flushed system with new Ate SuperBlue flowing through the ss lines worked great to slow this big beast.

__________________
Charles Cleaver
1975 350SE + 1992 300CE-24 SportLine 5-speed + 2002 SLK320 6-speed + 1974 W114 280
1986 190E 2.3-16 (Decomm rear self-leveling suspension; Euro-code headlamps) sold
2004 Audi S4 6-spd - sold
1969 (2) and 1980 Porsche 911T, S, and SC - alas gone
1987 300SDL - Graf Spee; Euro-code headlamps; 16-inch 8-hole wheels - sold
1994 E420+(E500 suspension/E-code headlamps/PAD chip) sold
1968 250SE 4-speed (NICE car) - long gone
1962 220S 4-speed/column mount - long gone

Ha looks as though me and you leave the longest threads. Mark after I installed the accumalators 2 weeks ago. I power flushed 2 times. The stuff came out like glass after. I'll check the bushings.
The rear swaybar bushing really dont go bad. For my 14 yrs being a Factory tech. I never had to replaced rear sway bars or bushing
But im going to double check it. As for the after market brakes. I'll fare worn you. I replaced out soo many after market brakes that customers had on there cars becuase of excessive noise.
Now those pads you mention im sure there a harder compound that stock OEM MB pads. But its at your own descretion if you want to use them or not. I dont think brembo would sell a disc thats cracks thats a big liability. When it says for off road use only thats where those brakes come alive is on the track. I've worked for many tuners and beento alot of differnet places experiments with the TUV people in gemany thats our BAR people out here. I'm pretty knowledgable when it comes to this stuff.

Im going to globe tire in manhanttan saturday to roll the fenders.
Then I'll be at the shop Saturday hopefully installing my coil springs Im supposed to me the guy tonight to pick them up.
see ya guido.