Please Info on 190E 2.3-16 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

#1 08-29-2001, 01:10 AM

I'm considering buying, from its 3rd owner, a 1986 190E 2.3-16 with 139k miles. He has the paper work of the last 6 years he's driven it. Before, it belonged to a buddy of his.

I wonder if the price list for parts on this car somehow resembles that of the regular 190E, or this is a totally different animal and has an outrageous price list for everything? Is the 16 valve as reliable as the other MBs? Or due to its high performance, is it prone to more failures?
I'm not into twiking or racing this kind of cars, I;ll try to keep it OE, and use it as a daily driver.

I'm test driving it tomorrow evening, please let me know the major things I should look for and the typical parts broken or missing on this model. Thank you.

Ken

yhliem · #2 08-29-2001, 02:40 AM

kefer,

most of the parts are the same as a regular 190 however some of the major differences are as follows:

exterior

the aerodynamics are 16valve specific and can cost a pretty penny if they need to be replaced

interior

power leather sport seats by recaro (if i remember correctly) i believe they cost on the order of $4000 each if you need to replace one.

mechanical
self-leveling (hydropneumatic) rear shocks

the hydrogen cells can and may have developed leaks. these can be replaces with OEM shocks or regular, non leveling shocks.

brakes

the braking system is esentially a transplanted 300e system with vented front rotors

engine

the block is, i believe common to the 8 valve, but the head, of course, is the cosworth twin cam.

instead of an exhaust manifold, there is a stainless steel tubular header. again, 16 valve specific.

transmission

the manual tranny is a getrag close ratio 5-speed (no overdrive) with a dogleg 1st.

typical things to look for:

****timing chain - should be replaced every 90,000 mi or so
****timing chain tensioner - replace with upgraded ratcheting type tensioner
these first 2 are critical as a faulty tensioner and loose chain will go a long way to destroying the engine

suspension bushings - condition indicative of type of usage

the engine is just as reliable as other MB engines although the fuel injection system can be and often is finicky. there's no way around this as that is how most of these cars are. call it the "nature of the beast"

so long as regular maintenance (read religious oil changes), have been performed the engine should be in good working order.

the biggest thing to check in the timing chain and tensioner. the oem tensioner did not retain tension without oilpressure, so when the engine is shut off, the tensioner relaxes until oil pressure is re-established. in the case of a worn or loose timing chain, this could prove to be disasterous. the best fix is to have the tensioner replaced with the upgraded version which uses a ratchet to maintain tension even when the engine is off.

ATATEXAN · #3 08-29-2001, 01:37 PM

All very good comments and answers to your question. I had direct - and expensive - expensive experience with the "superceded" timing chain tensioner failing.

I am not at all sure that I would buy the 16V if I had it to do over. The car is a big of a pig around town, given its weight and high-revving 16V configuration. My old '84 BMW 325e is a more fun car to drive.

A year and a half into my E420+, I have to say I like the 124 better, aside from the automatic. With a pretty easy set of mods to the suspension, the big V-8 car will leave the 201 in the dirt.

Just one guy's opinion.

yhliem · #4 08-29-2001, 03:38 PM

atatexan,

Quote:

I am not at all sure that I would buy the 16V if I had it to do over. The car is a big of a pig around town, given its weight and high-revving 16V configuration. My old '84 BMW 325e is a more fun car to drive.

i'll admit that the fuel economy of the 16 valve leaves a little to be desired. and it my not be as fun to drive as a bmw. but as a complete package, taking into account build quality, reliability and fit & finish, i'd have to choose mb over bmw. mb is just an easier car to live with over a bmw on a daily basis...particularly in the reliability department. yes, there will be some lemons out there, there always are; however taken as a whole, i find that mb pulls off dual purpose cars better than bmw.

Quote:

With a pretty easy set of mods to the suspension, the big V-8 car will leave the 201 in the dirt.

ummm..isn't that kind of like saying that a dodge 3500 cummins diesel long-box dually can carry more payload than a mazda b2200?

i've gone from drivign a 500e to the 16v back to a 500e and yes, a big v-8 will leave the 201 in the dirt, but the 201 is more nimble than a 124. they're different types of car. the 16v was designed to nibble at, not gobble up the road.

the 2.3-16 may not be the ultimate car, but it's still fun to drive and has a personality that's all its own.

#5 08-29-2001, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yhliem
atatexan,

i've gone from drivign a 500e to the 16v back to a 500e and yes, a big v-8 will leave the 201 in the dirt, but the 201 is more nimble than a 124. they're different types of car. the 16v was designed to nibble at, not gobble up the road.

the 2.3-16 may not be the ultimate car, but it's still fun to drive and has a personality that's all its own.

The little 16 valver does nibble up the road and doesn't gorge up like a 500E....but being designed as a "rally" car the little 201 does an excellent job on roads with tight radius turns and switch backs....During April of this year I drove my 1985 16 valver from Cherokee N.C. to Gatlinberg TN up US 441 thru the Great Smoky Mountains National Park..25 miles of mountain road built for the little 16 valver...using 2nd and 3rd gear most of the time and holding the power band between 4500 to 5500 rpm the car had just a bit of under steer in the tight turns..and I could feel the ground effects working as it would seem to know the exact spot to keep low on approaching the apex of a turn...the car always felt like it had a small reserve of power during the steep climbs..(up to 6500rpm's during this segment).. what really surprised me was the feeling that the car was commading the road to its will ....but I did start to experience some brake fad towards the end of the run...all and all with 108000 miles on the clock I feel the car aquitted itself quite nicely in an enviorment for which it was designed....and the best part...it got me back home to Sarasota FL with no problems....on the interstate the engine felt most comfortable in the 90 to 100mph range...its no 500E on the straights...its a nibbler.....keep the revs up and stay safe.

yhliem · #6 08-30-2001, 12:46 AM

neil,

what really surprised me about the 16v when i first drove it is how comfortable it felt. right away i felt at home in the car.

somehow the car is very easy to drive how it was meant to be driven. not only is it forgiving, but it is also the type of car that has the driver, in short order, supremely confident of where the car is placed on the road.

the 500e, though a formidable car in its own right, is not as familiar a car to me. i never feel the same level of confidence in pushing the 500 that i do with the 16v.

ATATEXAN · #7 08-30-2001, 09:53 AM

I am glad to have generated some controversy and discussion! I stand by my comments on the 16V around town vs. the 3 series. My 1984 BMW was incredibly reliable and fun; the 16V is sluggish in comparison to the torquey 325e. The 16V is fantasic on rural, curvy high speed roads but so is my heavily altered E420. They are a nice complement. People ask why I have two, "black" four door M-B's. Hard to explain how different they are to outsiders.

Viva la difference!

#8 09-01-2001, 11:47 AM

Texan: You are comparing an apple to an orange with the 201 class and your e420. Your 420 is a much bigger and heavier car than a 190 is. I would agree with ur comments about the 16 valve being a bit sluggish off the line but I think there are few cars out there that sound like that cosworth 2.3 screaming. MY dad has a CLK 430 and it will out run the 16 valve no questions asked. I love my 16 valve and 5 speed. 125,000 on the ticker!. Joe

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