Performance tire question (High HP Mercedes Owners Please Read) - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

80's old school · #1 02-05-2009, 08:43 AM

Hi, I am usually posting and lurking around in the diesel section.
I have a tire question that some of you that have high HP Mercedes might be able to answer.

I have a 2005 Jaguar XJR. The XJR has a 400HP supercharged V-8.
The car is driven very little and has the factory 275/35/20 Michelin Pilot tires on it.

My issue is I used to be able to punch the throttle from a standstill and the tires would hook no problem.

The last few times I have been driving the car, I cannot seem to get these tires to connect to the road AT ALL! The traction control is constantly kicking in. I even rolled into the throttle and then punched it. Soon as the engine hit 4500-5000 RPM....spin city and the traction control kicked in.

Have you guys ever run the Michelin Pilots? Have you even ran into the same situation? I am thinking the compound has probably gone away. Most people probably wear out the tire treads and never see this. I drive this car about 2000-3000 miles a year so my tires are just OLD.

I know this is technically not a Mercedes question...but any suggestions would help.

RBYCC · #2 02-05-2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80's old school

Hi, I am usually posting and lurking around in the diesel section.
I have a tire question that some of you that have high HP Mercedes might be able to answer.

I have a 2005 Jaguar XJR. The XJR has a 400HP supercharged V-8.
The car is driven very little and has the factory 275/35/20 Michelin Pilot tires on it.

My issue is I used to be able to punch the throttle from a standstill and the tires would hook no problem.

The last few times I have been driving the car, I cannot seem to get these tires to connect to the road AT ALL! The traction control is constantly kicking in. I even rolled into the throttle and then punched it. Soon as the engine hit 4500-5000 RPM....spin city and the traction control kicked in.

Have you guys ever run the Michelin Pilots? Have you even ran into the same situation? I am thinking the compound has probably gone away. Most people probably wear out the tire treads and never see this. I drive this car about 2000-3000 miles a year so my tires are just OLD.

I know this is technically not a Mercedes question...but any suggestions would help.

I see you are in Houston so assumption is typical warm/hot weather.

When you noticed the problem was the ambient temp unusually cold ?

Most high performance tire compunds start getting slippery around forty to fifty degrees F. The colder the temp the less grip !

80's old school · #3 02-05-2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBYCC

I see you are in Houston so assumption is typical warm/hot weather.

When you noticed the problem was the ambient temp unusually cold ?

Most high performance tire compunds start getting slippery around forty to fifty degrees F. The colder the temp the less grip !

I took the car to the 1/4 drag track in the summer... Hooked up great. Could not make it spin. Took it again in the fall. Hooked up great the first run and then spin city. All night long, nothing but spin.

Now i don't normally make it a habit to drag race a Jag...but....

The last few times I have taken the car out for a spin i have had various weather from 80 deg. to probably 55 deg. yesterday.

When I was at the track, I tried to make it hook up better by doing a burnout. I wonder if I ruined the compound of the tires by doing burnouts, or is it just the tires getting old.

It is very annoying now. It is not sure footed at all.

In the Jag, when the traction control kicks in, it immediately pulls the throttle back (drive by wire) and shifts to 2nd. Then you are just accelerating in 2nd. Slows the vehicle significantly.

RBYCC · #4 02-05-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80's old school

I took the car to the 1/4 drag track in the summer... Hooked up great. Could not make it spin. Took it again in the fall. Hooked up great the first run and then spin city. All night long, nothing but spin.

Now i don't normally make it a habit to drag race a Jag...but....

The last few times I have taken the car out for a spin i have had various weather from 80 deg. to probably 55 deg. yesterday.

When I was at the track, I tried to make it hook up better by doing a burnout. I wonder if I ruined the compound of the tires by doing burnouts, or is it just the tires getting old.

It is very annoying now. It is not sure footed at all.

In the Jag, when the traction control kicks in, it immediately pulls the throttle back (drive by wire) and shifts to 2nd. Then you are just accelerating in 2nd. Slows the vehicle significantly.

Well temp wasn't the problem...
2005 Jag, tires about four years old...that could be a reason for the loss of performance.
Burn outs don't help...
A tire designed for street use doesn't attain any more grip by doing a burn out.
A drag tire or race tire has a compound that responds to heat.
Best on a street tire to drop the pressure to about 24psi for more 1/4 mile grip.

80's old school · #5 02-05-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBYCC

Well temp wasn't the problem...
2005 Jag, tires about four years old...that could be a reason for the loss of performance.
Burn outs don't help...
A tire designed for street use doesn't attain any more grip by doing a burn out.
A drag tire or race tire has a compound that responds to heat.
Best on a street tire to drop the pressure to about 24psi for more 1/4 mile grip.

Yeah, I kinda thought that burnouts would not help the traction. I am an Old School drag racer where I did have slicks on my hotrods. Had friends that were going to the track and the only thing semi fast that i had was the Jag. Hard to get the burning out thing out of your system when you are at the track!

I am going to check into maybe getting some new tires. The car just isn't fun like it used to be.

400Eric · #6 02-06-2009, 12:28 AM

I can tell you something else about Michelins. I had some "V" speed (149MPH) rated ones on my 400E, always properly inflated, At least half their tread left. One exploded on me at 120MPH well under it's speed rating. I kept the car under control and coasted to a stop but the explosion sure made a mess of things. Upon closer inspection, I found that one of the remaining ones was about to let go as well. As far as I'm concerned, Michelin can go to Hades! Regards, Eric

JayRash · #7 02-06-2009, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400Eric

I can tell you something else about Michelins. I had some "V" speed (149MPH) rated ones on my 400E, always properly inflated, At least half their tread left. One exploded on me at 120MPH well under it's speed rating. I kept the car under control and coasted to a stop but the explosion sure made a mess of things. Upon closer inspection, I found that one of the remaining ones was about to let go as well. As far as I'm concerned, Michelin can go to Hades! Regards, Eric

Well, we can't generalize that all Michelin tires are bad, just like i cant claim that all Dunlop are bad. But in general Michelins have softer side walls than other makes. I have no experience with HP Michelin but a couple of my friends run them on (the pilot sport 2 tread) their Mitsubishi EVO 9 ( 400+ hp each car) and they would swear by them as the best tire this side of a semi slick compound.

I personally like Bridgestone just for the stiff side walls.

in the end it might have just been a defect tire, S&#t happens u know.
It might be that the valve developed a leak during that run and caused the side walls to over heat. And it might be that Michelin aren’t that good ( honest).
I like them brand but they are not a tire that will live long, compound will dry up quickly and soft side walls make them prone to ballooning

Turbo E320 · #8 02-06-2009, 10:53 AM

Grab up a set of Michelin PS2's your current tires have lost whatever compound they had. Michelin PS2's are one of the best sport tires ever made, they keep the new Zr1 planted

.

80's old school · #9 02-06-2009, 07:36 PM

Went today and bought a set of Dunlop Direzza tires....problem solved!! The original Michelin Pilot Sport "extra load" tires are $430 each!!!! I got the Dunlop's for $128 each. Time will tell if the tires work any where as good as the Pilot's DID!!

80's old school · #10 02-06-2009, 07:41 PM

The key to this car is to keep it in 1st gear when you launch it. I used to run the car at the track. When it would hook.....13.20 et@104 in the quarter. If it spun, it immediately shifts to 2nd a jerks the throttle back aggressively. Mid 14's to upper 14's at best!!!
Now I know I am on the Mercedes forum...and I do own some Mercedes...But I love to stomp AMG Benz's in this Jag!! Hard to do when it falls on it's face!!

400Eric · #11 02-07-2009, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRash

Well, we can't generalize that all Michelin tires are bad, just like i cant claim that all Dunlop are bad. But in general Michelins have softer side walls than other makes. I have no experience with HP Michelin but a couple of my friends run them on (the pilot sport 2 tread) their Mitsubishi EVO 9 ( 400+ hp each car) and they would swear by them as the best tire this side of a semi slick compound.

I personally like Bridgestone just for the stiff side walls.

in the end it might have just been a defect tire, S&#t happens u know.
It might be that the valve developed a leak during that run and caused the side walls to over heat. And it might be that Michelin aren’t that good ( honest).
I like them brand but they are not a tire that will live long, compound will dry up quickly and soft side walls make them prone to ballooning

I could dismiss it as a defective tire if it was just one but there was a second one about to let go. And I know it wasn't the valve stem cause the second tire still had proper air pressure. Regards, Eric

JayRash · #12 02-07-2009, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80's old school

Went today and bought a set of Dunlop Direzza tires....problem solved!! The original Michelin Pilot Sport "extra load" tires are $430 each!!!! I got the Dunlop's for $128 each. Time will tell if the tires work any where as good as the Pilot's DID!!

from what i have heard those should be gr8 ones.

80's old school · #13 02-10-2009, 04:57 PM

Yes ++++1 for the Dunlop Direzza's! They definitely took care of the problem I had. My Michelin Pilot sports must have lost their compound badly!

Traction Problem solved!!