190E 3.0-12v Turbo - Page 16 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BAD300 · #**226** 11-09-2010, 08:13 AM

hehehehehe........now that's what I'm torquen' about

Just do yourself a favour & think the set up over reeeeeal well. I like the spunk though all the same

Joreto · #**227** 11-14-2010, 01:55 AM

Took the engine out yesterday, here is the story in pictures :

engine is out !

The damage :
- lately I've been having issues new shifting in first or reverse at idle, turns out the pressure plate is damaged

- here is what happens when you spin a bearing in 5-th at 5000 - 5500 rpm

The result is three span bearings on 2-nd,3-rd and 6-th cylinder, crankshaft has a lot of damage and also the bottom cap of the conrod on 2-nd cyl. Oil pump turned out to be OK, also the axial bearings are fine.

BAD300 · #**228** 11-14-2010, 03:26 AM

Faaaaark! Not good at all

Let us know your plans from here with engine

.....when you've had time to consider all things that is

RBYCC · #**229** 11-14-2010, 07:50 AM

Oil pump proved okay, but still possible you lost supply to the bearings....?

nick.ged · #**230** 11-14-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joreto

Nick now I get what your implying but I'm using only the inner ring all metal, ditched the rubber and the outer ring (all solid )

.

therfore you are not using a harmonic balancer, because without the rubber bit and the counter weight, it is not able to harmonically balance anything, so you are another proof that it isnt needed...

taint · #**231** 11-14-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick.ged

therfore you are not using a harmonic balancer, because without the rubber bit and the counter weight, it is not able to harmonically balance anything, so you are another proof that it isnt needed...

I very much doubt that this was caused by not running a harmonic balancer, driving without the harmonic balancer in theory will cause damage but we are talkin over a long stretch of time.

Judging by the pictures Ed is right it looks like the pump was okay but there was shortage of oil supply to the shells which resulted in a lot of friction. Joreto any pictures of the crank

duxthe1 · #**232** 11-14-2010, 08:14 PM

Agreed, one bearing failure you might could attribute to a harmonic problem but with three shells wiped out at once, that's definitely a lack of oil. Big question is why?

Chlippo · #**233** 11-14-2010, 08:22 PM

maybe the oil pump was running fine but didnt supply enough?....that might be, but, ive read a lot of threads about turbo'ed M103 and no one mentions an oil pump failing to supply enough.
Those are hard pictures :S

BAD300 · #**234** 11-14-2010, 09:00 PM

Just for arguments sake. What viscosity oil were you running Joreto? Start up visc I was referring to (10w; 15w etc) Why I ask is I've never been fond of the thicker start up oils. The thinner oils get right into all parts & quickly. Was given advice on this for performance cars when I knew a guy working at a performance shop many years ago.

If you need a thicker visc for high temp running than you just go for a 50. 10w50; 15w50 etc. I use 10w50 in both my 313000km MX6 & wifes 110000km Commodore. They don't drink a bit, either of them. Maybe the MX6 after hell of a lot of driving?

Joreto · #**235** 11-15-2010, 02:33 AM

Well for now I have no explanation why there was lack of oil to the bearings. During the runs everything was spot on, air temp,coolant temp, oil temp (~100 degrees Celsius on the last run), oil pressure etc. There was some debris in the pumps net but that was from the bearings.

Taint, no pictures of the crank since it was getting late and my phone camera doesn't take good photos in the dark, also I didn't pull it out of the engine, just checked it.

BAD300, the motor oil I'm using is Motul 300v Competition 15w50. As to the plans for the car, currently I'm considering getting a 3.0-24v engine if I can get a good price for one, I know two for sale, of course the engine will be boosted. If I can't get e good price, than I'll rebuild this engine.

P.S. Thinking about the failure, maybe there is an issue with the crank which caused the 2-nd cyl. bearing to go, which in turn lead to no oil pressure, which caused the other 2 bearing to fail also. When I have time I'll pull the crank and check it just for info.

Joreto · #**236** 11-15-2010, 06:04 AM

Some light in the tunnel, if everything goes according to plan, tomorrow I'll pick up an 3.0-24v engine, keeping my fingers crossed !

BAD300 · #**237** 11-15-2010, 07:23 AM

All the best buddy. You deserve a BIG break

taint · #**238** 11-15-2010, 07:31 AM

if you do get the m104 do yourself a favour take of the sump and retorque everything, also change the head gasket if you can and the head bolts, get a drill wire brush and clean out the ports. then wash out the engine paraffin or diesel work great.

I was wondering what are you gonna do for the turbo manifold are you gonna make an adapter to use your current manifold? and regarding your oil what are your operating temperatures if its anything like the UK right now then 15w50 would be to thick

Joreto · #**239** 11-15-2010, 07:45 AM

BAD300, thanks, hope this time I get lucky with this engine and don't have such issues.

Taint, when I get the engine I'll check/change the bearings and bolts and, retorque them, I'll also change the head gasket just in case. Didn't the early m104 heads have the same port design of the m103 ? If the head is the early design I hope that the manifold will bolt up, if not than I'll have a custom one made. One little issue I see is that the stock compression ration of the m104 is 10:1 which means that I'd have to run less boost. I'd like to run 1 bar but that means I'll have to retard the timing a lot.

One question, is the m104 head gasket the same as the m103 or are they different ? Also does anyone have a stock timing table and/or a ignition map of a turbocharged m104 that I could use for a start ?

JayRash · #**240** 11-15-2010, 08:21 AM

regarding the head gasket well its a small dif IIRC on the front side of the engine near the chain there is some oil drain that might be slightly few mm off so all u need to do is drill the gasket to match.