Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Mercedes-Benz Performance Paddock

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 01-20-2010, 08:07 PM
Jeremy5848's Avatar
Registered Biodiesel User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sonoma Wine Country
Posts: 8,402
REST switch

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
You can probably buy one through your local dealership. Part # 124-820-11-10, special order from Germany, but as long as it isn't Comm Blocked they should be able to get one. Price is somewhere around $20 EUR, figure $30 USD or so. Have a European VIN handy in case the dealer asks for it.

Thanks, found it in EPC under "124.133, 300D Turbo (Europe)." It is part of SA 56547 "Heating with Residual Heat Utilization" and is available with manual heat and a/c systems only, as I think you already know. I'll check with the dealer, see if they can get it.

BTW, does anyone know if the REST switch illuminates or otherwise indicates that the function is "ON"?

Jeremy

__________________

"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970

Last edited by Jeremy5848; 01-20-2010 at 08:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 01-21-2010, 01:53 AM
JayRash's Avatar
DON'T PANIC
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Beirut, Lebanon
Posts: 1,281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy5848 View Post
Thanks, found it in EPC under "124.133, 300D Turbo (Europe)." It is part of SA 56547 "Heating with Residual Heat Utilization" and is available with manual heat and a/c systems only, as I think you already know. I'll check with the dealer, see if they can get it.

BTW, does anyone know if the REST switch illuminates or otherwise indicates that the function is "ON"?

Jeremy
Yes the rest button has a tiny Red LED when its on.
__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 01-21-2010, 04:02 PM
Jeremy5848's Avatar
Registered Biodiesel User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sonoma Wine Country
Posts: 8,402
DC control of blower confirmed

Just confirmed that the blower control is a DC voltage between 1 Volt (low speed) and 6 to 9 Volts (high speed) on the yellow wire from the PBU to the controller module. The control current is almost negligible, less than 1 milliamp, so the controller must be a Darlington pair or an op-amp with a gain of 10,000 to 100,000. With 1 VDC control voltage, the blower runs at low speed, drawing 5 Amps from the battery. The air comes out of the defrost vents and the side dash vents, as I expected. Access to the wiring is at connector X64, located above and behind the power brake booster.

So the homemade REST circuit will work. I want to get out of this thread and let you go back to drag racing. I'll post a new thread in Tech Help or Diesel Discussion (since my circuit will go in my 300D) when I get a little farther along. The engineering is done; if I had a technician, I'd "leave the rest of the work to the technician."

BTW, for folks who don't like the way the BPU controls blower speed, it would be easy to break the yellow wire at X64 and wire in a potentiometer to provide a control voltage between zero and about 6 Volts. Sixto, among others, is interested in this.

Jeremy
__________________

"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 01-21-2010, 06:37 PM
gsxr's Avatar
Unbanned...?
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,101
Sounds good, Jeremy. If you could post a link here, when you get the new thread started, that would be great.

BTW - for drag racing purposes, I'd want a 10 minute limit on the REST function, 15 minutes maximum, and the blower on high speed. For the normap PBU operation, I'd like to have the "Auto" button converted to a "medium" speed, and sacrifice the "auto" function. I suspect Sixto was interested in the same thing.

__________________
Dave
Boise, ID

Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 01-21-2010, 06:56 PM
Glen's Avatar
...auto enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Carlsbad, CA USA
Posts: 1,187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy5848 View Post
BTW, for folks who don't like the way the BPU controls blower speed, it would be easy to break the yellow wire at X64 and wire in a potentiometer to provide a control voltage between zero and about 6 Volts. Sixto, among others, is interested in this.

Jeremy
Great info, thanks!
__________________
Glen Tokuhara
Beauty & the Beast and the wagon that could!
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 01-21-2010, 06:57 PM
Jeremy5848's Avatar
Registered Biodiesel User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sonoma Wine Country
Posts: 8,402
Bad news -- dealer says the part number is valid but they can't get it. Parts guy is someone I know and trust so it would indeed appear to be a non-USA part only. I'll have to try to get one, new or used, from someone in a country where 124s with the manual climate control were sold. In the meantime, I can use the rear window defog switch and just relabel it. Not as pretty but it will work.

For your drag racing purposes, you'd have to open up relay N10 and modify its timing constant from 30 minutes down to 10 or build your own timer with the appropriate time constant. You'd also need heavier wiring and a relay with 30 Amp contacts to run the blower at high speed. Otherwise it would be the same as my plan.

Your idea can be done but would require a more detailed schematic of the electronics in the PBU than currently exists. The manuals I have show the PBU as just a box with a transistor symbol on it, the two cables with pinouts, and symbols for the pushbuttons and the temperature control dial. No inner circuitry. One would have to take the PBU apart and reverse-engineer it.

Jeremy
__________________

"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 01-21-2010, 07:05 PM
gsxr's Avatar
Unbanned...?
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,101
I was thinking more along the lines of creating a timer/relay box that would turn on the aux coolant pump, and also turn on the HVAC fan on high, using diodes to prevent the accessory system from back-feeding into any of the factory electronics. I think the main hassle would be the 30A feed required, since the ignition switch kills power to the porcupine in the "off" position (at least, I'm almost sure it does - need to double check). At the track, I'm doing this manually by setting the temp wheel and fan speed both to "MAX" with the key on. Unfortunately, on a W124/M119 this pulls about 40A or so, since the engine computers draw a lot of current (MAF, etc). The REST setup should cut that by at least a third, maybe half if the fan speed was less than maximum. Hmmmmm.

Eric, I'd think you'd be interetested in this too!


Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 01-21-2010, 08:49 PM
Jeremy5848's Avatar
Registered Biodiesel User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sonoma Wine Country
Posts: 8,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
I was thinking more along the lines of . . .


That might work. I haven't looked hard at the diode idea but it might work for the blower. The aux coolant pump is wired through the PBU and I don't know exactly how it is powered. A DPDT relay might be unavoidable there.

Yes, the blower controller's power is switched off by the ignition switch. The controller will draw a small amount of power even with the yellow speed-control line floating, i.e., at zero voltage. It draws enough current to make a tiny spark when power is connected to the battery via a clip lead. Enough that you wouldn't want to leave it connected all of the time.

A diode in the main power lead to prevent back-feeding would have to be a healthy one and probably heat-sinked to boot since the blower can draw as much as 28 Amps at high speed. The voltage drop across the diode would also prevent the blower from reaching maximum speed in normal operation, probably not a big deal for most people.

Jeremy
__________________

"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 01-22-2010, 12:43 AM
Knappy Drag Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,725
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post

Eric, I'd think you'd be interetested in this too!
Yes I'm still here. I'm just not participating in the discussion because you guys have gone over my head now and I can't contribute anything useful. As you should remember, I'm just not that good with electrical stuff.

Yes, of course I'm interested. I just hope that whatever you guys come up with will be installable by regular folks like me and please, I would prefer not to have to give up any blower speed because when its warm I tend to run the "economy" setting on full speed to keep cool instead of running the air conditioning. Less heat for the engine and much less fuel economy penalty that way. (And yes, I leave the windows up.)
Regards, Eric
__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected
93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C.
95 E420 "Benzer4"
92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG
87 300D "Benzer7"
87 300D "Benzer8"
87 300D "Benzer9"
87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer"
87 300TD "Benzer11"
06 E320 CDI "Benzer12"
05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 01-22-2010, 01:19 AM
Jeremy5848's Avatar
Registered Biodiesel User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sonoma Wine Country
Posts: 8,402
Plug and Play

Quote:
Originally Posted by 400Eric View Post
. . . I just hope that whatever you guys come up with will be installable by regular folks like me . . .
It is my intention to design something that will plug into the existing ACC system rather than chopping up the wiring. You will be able to remove the adapter and leave the car undamaged. This means buying more parts, of course. For example, you'll need an extra plug and socket for the aux coolant pump so that all you'll have to do is to unplug the aux pump's cable, insert the adapter cable, and plug it back together. Same goes for the blower controller. The result will be a mod that will work only when the ignition is turned off -- that's how the REST function is supposed to work. When the ignition is turned on, the climate control system will work normally in all respects. I will want to confer with someone who has a gasoline-powered W124 since mine is a diesel. I don't think there are any serious differences in the ACC system but I want to be careful.

You'll need to make room for the switch to turn the REST function on and off; the wood panel that covers the ACC push-button unit and the row of switches above it is ideal but you'll need a panel with one more hole or sacrifice an existing switch and use its hole.

You'll need a fused source of 12 volts, separate from any other source, directly connected to the battery, and a good connection to chassis ground, and a couple of other connections.

You'll need a box with the relays and timer circuit. For those who are electrically challenged, I'd be willing to provide the design, gratis, to someone who wants to make a few bucks building the adapter. The box gets stuffed behind the dash wherever there's room. It won't be very big, say 4x4x3 inches or so.

I'm currently searching for a source for the REST switch but a rear window defroster switch will also work. If it will quit raining, I'll hit the local Pick and/or Pull and get the parts I need to start building.

Jeremy
__________________

"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 01-22-2010, 05:19 AM
Knappy Drag Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,725
Are you in Temecula's wine country by any chance?
__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected
93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C.
95 E420 "Benzer4"
92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG
87 300D "Benzer7"
87 300D "Benzer8"
87 300D "Benzer9"
87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer"
87 300TD "Benzer11"
06 E320 CDI "Benzer12"
05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 01-22-2010, 01:08 PM
Jeremy5848's Avatar
Registered Biodiesel User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sonoma Wine Country
Posts: 8,402
Farms in Berkeley? Mooo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 400Eric View Post
Are you in Temecula's wine country by any chance?
I'm in Sonoma County. Been to Temecula, a warmish place to grow wine grapes, IMHO.
__________________

"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 01-25-2010, 10:12 AM
Knappy Drag Racer
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,725
I'm not much of a wine person but I was hoping against hope that you were in that "wine country" since you were putting out a call for a gas W124 to try your device on a few posts back weren't you? I'm a lot closer to Temecula than I am to Sonoma.

Dave, I had to move around some stuff over the week-end and I came across the muffler and resonator that I had removed from Benzer 3 over a year ago. I didn't have time to weigh them but it's safe to say that I have found a fair amount of Benzer 3's missing pounds.
Regards, Eric
__________________
89 300E "Benzer1" 15.924 Uncorrected
93 400E "Benzer3" 14.200 U.C.
95 E420 "Benzer4"
92 300E "Benzer5" 16.299 U.C. Future turbo CNG
87 300D "Benzer7"
87 300D "Benzer8"
87 300D "Benzer9"
87 300D/70 AMC Javelin "Sidewinder-Benzer"
87 300TD "Benzer11"
06 E320 CDI "Benzer12"
05 E320 CDI "Benzer12A"
71 AMC Javelin AMX 401 "Sidewinder"
74 AMC Hornet 401 "C.K.10" 13.63 U.C.
74 Bricklin SV1 "Presto" AMC 360 pwrd.

Last edited by 400Eric; 01-25-2010 at 10:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 01-25-2010, 10:49 AM
gsxr's Avatar
Unbanned...?
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 8,101
Quote:
Originally Posted by 400Eric View Post
I'm not much of a wine person but I was hoping against hope that you were in that "wine country" since you were putting out a call for a gas W124 to try your device on a few posts back weren't you? I'm a lot closer to Temecula than I am to Sonoma.

Dave, I had to move around some stuff over the week-end and I came across the muffler and resonator that I had removed from Benzer 3 over a year ago. I didn't have time to weigh them but it's safe to say that I have found a fair amount of Benzer 3's missing pounds.
Regards, Eric
400E stock resonator + muffler = 46 lbs (one piece assembly)
500E stock resonator + muffler = 49 lbs (resonator = 26, muffler = 23)

On the 500E, a steel Y-pipe weighs about 10 lbs, for a 16lb savings. The 400E would have to have this welded in since there is no flange between resonator and muffler as on the 500E. I'll post photos on my website eventually.


Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 02-01-2010, 12:14 AM
Jeremy5848's Avatar
Registered Biodiesel User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sonoma Wine Country
Posts: 8,402
First steps

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
Sounds good, Jeremy. If you could post a link here, when you get the new thread started, that would be great. . .
For starters, here's a link to a thread on Diesel Discussion, where I post instructions for adding manual blower speed control to the W124 climate control system.

This is my first step towards building a full-fledged REST function -- it confirms that the W124 blower control is pure analog and fairly easy to modify. My REST function will have a 30-minute timer at low blower speed while those of you who drag race want a 10-minute timer at a faster blower speed. For the latter I need to find another timer circuit. Hang in there while I do some more research.

Jeremy

__________________

"Buster" in the '95

Our all-Diesel family
1996 E300D (W210) . .338,000 miles Wife's car
2005 E320 CDI . . 113,000 miles My car
Santa Rosa population 176,762 (2022)
Total. . . . . . . . . . . . 627,762
"Oh lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz."
-- Janis Joplin, October 1, 1970
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page