I'm looking at drivetrain options for a new project I'm working on. The engine will be either a C36 m104 or a 3.2 m104 turboed.
The idea is to have approx 300hp
The transmission I was hoping to use was a unit from as early 90's 300sl, primarily because it has overdrive.
The last resort was the unit from a 190e 16v.
Any thoughts? Recommendations?

Joe, just curious, did you mean the 5-speed manual from an early R129? In our last email I though you were referring to the 722.5 auto five-speed in the early R129 (which does have a 0.75 overdrive). I'll have to check the specs on the manual trans.

The C36 engine puts out nearly 300 lb-ft of torque, which I believe is of more concern than the amount of horsepower. All the MB slushboxes are rated based on maximum input torque, not horsepower. Dunno about the manuals though.

__________________
Dave
Boise, ID
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

Hi Dave, yes the 5 speed manual from the R129.
Thanks!

There was a supercharged 300sl - r129 on ebay for a while. Does anyone have any details on that car?

I think a gearbox is always rated on torque

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

the manual transmission 717.4 used on cars powered by the m104 should be sufficient for the job, but it does depend on what type of clutch/flywheel combo you use.

the same transmission is used on smaller m111 powered cars but has a smaller input shaft and the smaller driveshaft yoke i beleive,
these transmissions are by no way as smooth/fast change as japanese/bmw boxes but they are still manual,
im not sure what sensors your ecu may require but this box has none

Bad news... the manual transmission used with the early R129.061 300SL (717.451, GL76/30B-5) does not have an overdrive 5th gear. Ratios are as follows:

1- 4.151
2- 2.523
3- 1.687
4- 1.239
5- 1.000

The early R129 automatic (722.500) has an overdrive fifth gear, with a 0.75:1 ratio, and this is rated for an input torque of 300Nm (much less than the 380Nm that the C36 engine puts out in stock form).

Looks like you're back to either no overdrive, or going for the 722.6 transplant (which would be awesome - just not easy or cheap!).

If its overdrive you want go for the regular M103 manual 5 speed box, not the getrag dog leg ones as almost all of those are direct close ratio boxes.

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

hello gsxr do you know what the 717.441 manual transmission is rated at?
it was used in the w202 m104 c280,
and i think came in the w202 c36 aswell

if its the same as in the e500 should be good for abt 380lbft +
keeping in mind that the max any of the merc boxes could take at that time was a shade over 400 in the 600 v12

and thus the reason the 600 box always had a short life.

but am sure GSXR has alot more accurate data than i do

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

i am talking about a manual transmission jayrash,
i dont think the cars you are refering to came with a manual tranny did they?
or are you saying youd expect them to be the same strength as the autos?

OPPPS
me bad then

with all them auto mercs i totally forgot here its abt the few manual ones.

but what misled me is ur mention of the box on a C36 M104. I dont think that AMG ever came with a manual box. but u can easily fit it with one.

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

Thanks for all the help. I can't remember who told me about that the 717.441 trans had overdrive, but I'll have to remember and let them know.
Thanks to everyone.

i am sure that the 717.441 ( if its the std manual box that came on W202 C280 cars) has an over drive 5th.

Only the GETRAG Dog- leg boxes that came on the w201 2.3-16, 2.5-16, W124 M103 3.0 sport line , M104 3.0-24Valve and similarly engined R129s had direct final 5th (all but one).
But even among those getrag boxes listed i believe there is one that had a small overdrive ratio but i dont have any exact data to which car of the above it was fitted.

__________________
Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

Problem is, in the USA, very VERY few manual tranny cars were ever imported. So it will be real difficult to locate one. The 1986 300E and early R129 300SL are about the only ones I know of through the mid-90's, anyway (remember, I'm talking USA-spec only here).

BTW - the 717.451 does not have overdrive fifth. I'm not sure about the 717.441 tranny.

The 1986 300E manual tranny is a 717.430, and it DOES have an overdrive fifth gear:

1- 3.856
2- 2.183
3- 1.376
4- 1.000
5- 0.799

From the 1986 300E "Introduction" manual:

"This model is equipped with the new 5-speed overdrive transmission 717.430 (GL 76/27-5). It differs from the previous 717.410 (GL 68/20-5) in gear ratio (to accomodate the 6-cylinder engine torque output) and counter-to-mainshaft centerline distances of 76mm and 68mm, respectively."

Again, this tranny only had to deal with 255Nm (188 lb-ft) of torque from the M103. Dunno how it would handle 400Nm from a tweaked C36 motor.