AIR TO WATER INTERCOOLER - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

RBYCC · #1 05-28-2009, 02:11 PM

Gentleman...

Anyone have experience with the Australian PWR straight through Barrel type air to water intercooler?

Playing around with the idea of using a 4x6 or 4x8 located right at my intake plenum box and in series with my air to air unit which is on the lower passenger side chassis rail.

Thinking of piping it to my windshield washer tank and using an electric 145GPH electric fuel pump as the circulator and maybe even a small radiator / heat exchanger in the cooling loop.

I get this way when I'm bored !!!

Ed A.

JayRash · #2 05-28-2009, 02:28 PM

well am sure it will work better than ur air to air unit. and if u go with this remove the air to air to reduce the pressure drop the intercooler usally causes.

water to air work so well that they negate ur first unit IMO.

i know ull need to custom make a new pipe once the air to air is out, but the gain is worth it.

RBYCC · #3 05-28-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRash

well am sure it will work better than ur air to air unit. and if u go with this remove the air to air to reduce the pressure drop the intercooler usally causes.

water to air work so well that they negate ur first unit IMO.

i know ull need to custom make a new pipe once the air to air is out, but the gain is worth it.

Thank you Jay...

You got me thinking...good points !!!

I was thinking that the existing air/air would overcome any losses by how it's dropping the charge temp...
The water/water would be a second stage and wouldn't have to extract as much heat as if it was coming direct from the turbo discharges...?

Thanks again

Ed A.

JayRash · #4 05-28-2009, 04:04 PM

As far as i know in any turbo setup u have pressure drop ratio caused by the pipes, intercooler and the manifold,
on a low boost setup alot even advise to delete the intercooler and go with alcohol injection to minimize the drop ratio.

Goatman · #5 05-28-2009, 08:06 PM

A properly setup air to water intercooler can drop the intake air temp to below ambient, even in the middle of summer.

That's on a dedicated drag car that gets the water and ice changed after every pass. On a street car, you'll eventually be boiling water. Not gonna stay cool very long when driving around. You'd have to put it where the air can cool it off somewhat, which is pretty much what an air to air cooler does.

whipplem104 · #6 05-29-2009, 12:18 AM

I run a spearco air/water intercooler. The unit works great. I see almost perfect air temps which is roughly 30-35 degrees above ambient at full boost.
I have a very large surface area radiator to cool the water back down though and a large resevoir. As mentioned the water can be iced down. Having a large resevoir keeps you from getting heat soaked on a single pass. The large radiator keeps the temps down all the time. It is all a trade off, but a well designed air/water will work very well and have little to no pressure drop. At my current boost level of a little over 10psi I see less than a pound of pressure drop. I know that dealing with spearco is no longer very easy as they require that you buy through one of their vendors. Corky bell though has very good support for designing what you want and their prices are very competitive.
I cannot stress enough how important cold air is to making good power. Good luck with which ever way you go.
One more thing Ed. You may want to watch the air flow sensor plate on the fuel door. I ran into problems where I basically reached the end of travel on it. You can measure the resistance or the return voltage and check it under full load.

JayRash · #7 05-29-2009, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whipplem104

One more thing Ed. You may want to watch the air flow sensor plate on the fuel door. I ran into problems where I basically reached the end of travel on it. You can measure the resistance or the return voltage and check it under full load.

I am sure he is already running it to its max travel, but if it only affects the fueling i think he is fine as his additional injectors are more than up to it.

But i don't know if am missing any obvious issues that he might run into if the plate reaches max travel!! plz advise.

RBYCC · #8 05-29-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whipplem104

I run a spearco air/water intercooler. The unit works great. I see almost perfect air temps which is roughly 30-35 degrees above ambient at full boost.
I have a very large surface area radiator to cool the water back down though and a large resevoir. As mentioned the water can be iced down. Having a large resevoir keeps you from getting heat soaked on a single pass. The large radiator keeps the temps down all the time. It is all a trade off, but a well designed air/water will work very well and have little to no pressure drop. At my current boost level of a little over 10psi I see less than a pound of pressure drop. I know that dealing with spearco is no longer very easy as they require that you buy through one of their vendors. Corky bell though has very good support for designing what you want and their prices are very competitive.
I cannot stress enough how important cold air is to making good power. Good luck with which ever way you go.
One more thing Ed. You may want to watch the air flow sensor plate on the fuel door. I ran into problems where I basically reached the end of travel on it. You can measure the resistance or the return voltage and check it under full load.

Thanks

Not having any problems with my air/air IC as it is fairly efficient.
Always looking to "build a better mousetrap"
Fueling is great as the additional injectors are mounted below the air valve assembly on top of the throttle body.
I think the fuel spray may also drop the charge temp a bit at that point.

I could locate the reservoir on the driver side between the headlight and the EZL.

Where did you locate the radiator ?
Also what GPM does your pump have...
I see some recommendations for the Ford IC pump, and was thinking about a 145GPM fuel pump as they both are automitive and rated for continuous duty.

Still researching to see if using the water/air unit right at the intake plenum in conjuction with the existing air/air mounted on the chassis rail within 12" of the two turbo outputs makes sense.
Sort of a series two stage cooling ?

Ed A.

whipplem104 · #9 05-29-2009, 10:03 AM

I installed an electric main engine fan and removed both the clutch fan and the
front aux fans. I then installed the radiator in front where the aux fans use to
be. As far as the pump goes. I use a johnson cm30. I think it is the same as the ford lightning pump in flow. I forget the exact flow rating. I would say it is about 20gpm. It is used in many systems from replacement units on the 3.2kompressors and 5.5kompressors and many other systems.

RBYCC · #10 05-29-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whipplem104

I installed an electric main engine fan and removed both the clutch fan and the
front aux fans. I then installed the radiator in front where the aux fans use to
be. As far as the pump goes. I use a johnson cm30. I think it is the same as the ford lightning pump in flow. I forget the exact flow rating. I would say it is about 20gpm. It is used in many systems from replacement units on the 3.2kompressors and 5.5kompressors and many other systems.

Thanks

Your radiator location appears to be the logical place to install.

As far as my idea to put my existing A/A in series with a new W/A comes from Audi who uses two A/A in series on the 225HP TT

All my research indicates the advantage of intercoolers in series even with an additional pressure drop is in the air charge temp drop...

May be worth experimenting !!!

Ed A.

matsalleh76 · #11 05-31-2009, 11:58 AM

Below is a link to an illustrated write-up (size ~ 10mb) we did on a ROTREX supercharged water/air intercooled 2.3-16. The twin heat exchanger concept we adapted is quite similar to the AUDI application pictured above.

The installation transformed an already quick and fine handling car to the next level with no sacrifice in driveability: you do not know the blower is there until you put your foot down.......

http://www.snapdrive.net/files/465230/ROTREX%20revised%20write%20up5.doc

Regards,

bobf.

Deni · #12 05-31-2009, 04:40 PM

That PWR intercooler looks very expensive.

I wonder if this one is the same:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Universal-Liquid-to-Air-Intercooler-Water-Long-Flow-T20_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3 a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem4835c5b37bQQitemZ310139794299QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fT ruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

auspumpen · #13 06-03-2009, 08:14 AM

A while back I purchased a set of A2W ICs from an SL600. I was thinking of running them in parallel. I'd then pull my FMIC and replace it with a similarly sized radiator core for the coolant. I think I'd also want thermally switched fan(s) to augment the airflow. More complicated for sure, but I also get bored from time to time...

RBYCC · #14 06-03-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by auspumpen

A while back I purchased a set of A2W ICs from an SL600. I was thinking of running them in parallel. I'd then pull my FMIC and replace it with a similarly sized radiator core for the coolant. I think I'd also want thermally switched fan(s) to augment the airflow. More complicated for sure, but I also get bored from time to time...

Well directed "boredom" can sometimes lead to creativity or other times disaster !!!!

Always trying improve and go just a little bit faster....

Not sure what engine you have but be careful of excess volume with parallel IC's as too much volume will drop the boost pressure.

auspumpen · #15 06-03-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RBYCC

Well directed "boredom" can sometimes lead to creativity or other times disaster !!!!

Always trying improve and go just a little bit faster....

Not sure what engine you have but be careful of excess volume with parallel IC's as too much volume will drop the boost pressure.

Yeah, I've been meaning to measure the total cooled surface area, relative to my FMIC. One might be sufficient for my needs.