M104 Cylinder Head differences... - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MAG58 · #76 01-27-2010, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayRash

Or maybe M104's can't make use of wild cam of 270+ duration :S too many restrictions maybe, in the manifolds, head, TB....

so how can i know what i have on my AMG 3.6? i really have no idea. whats the lift on out cams? and does the intake one on the AMG have more lift?

The vast overwhelming majority of modern heads/intakes cant support much over 260 degrees as they rolled out of the factory, yet they still offer many cams 260 all the way to 320 degrees of duration. The small amounts of duration and decent lift means they would be good turbo cams though.

To be honest, I have never gotten the opportunity to study the 3.6 motor, as much as I've wanted to (That means I know it's different, but don't know how it's different)... That said, contacting MKB or dBilas would probably get you exactly the answers you're looking for.

MAG58 · #77 01-28-2010, 12:20 AM

Just got a response back from Renntech.

They don't make cams for the car anymore and they made their own blanks, which they also don't make any more. They still sell the AMG cam though, which you can also still get through Mercedes.

Edit: The fine gentlemen at renntech also informed me that both heads flow roughly the same. The change was made to better suit the different (better) intake design.

JayRash · #78 01-28-2010, 01:33 AM

thats cooool regarding the heads. but a set of cams from renntech would have set u over 2000 usd

MAG58 · #79 01-28-2010, 01:37 AM

That's why I'll be sending some cams off one of these days (gotta un-dig myself from school) to Colt to see if I can get what I'd like.

I'm hoping for 270 duration, .420 lift (or more). Probably 110LCA. That said, if I cant get it ground to that, Crower will hardface a cam which will get you anything you'd like.

JayRash · #80 01-28-2010, 02:19 AM

You seem to have extensive experience with cams!!!!!

all i ever messed with was retard and advance and its effects on power delivery, my test bench was the M110 Euro spec 280 engine.

jhodg5ck · #81 01-28-2010, 07:15 PM

how far are you going to have to undercut the base circle? Do we know how much compensation the hyd. lifter has got in it?

Jonathan

MAG58 · #82 01-28-2010, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhodg5ck

how far are you going to have to undercut the base circle? Do we know how much compensation the hyd. lifter has got in it?

Jonathan

I have to get the cams analyzed to see how far the base circle can be under-cut. If it can go for a ways and that's farther than the hydro lifter has, I think I know of a motor or two that uses solid lifters I can hi-jack.

Turbo E320 · #83 01-28-2010, 09:06 PM

The AMG 3.6L M104 has the same cams as the 3.2L IIRC.

MAG58 · #84 01-28-2010, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo E320

The AMG 3.6L M104 has the same cams as the 3.2L IIRC.

Exhaust is the same (though the exhaust port has been worked)

The intake cam is different.

Turbo E320 · #85 01-29-2010, 12:14 AM

Interesting. I'm turbocharging a 3.6L in the next few months for a friend so we will see how a stock one of those responds. A Japanese company, Trial, has pushed a stock C36 to 420hp with a Motec ECU and a pretty small turbocharger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwllqAbfB4Q

JayRash · #86 01-29-2010, 01:27 AM

The 3.6 can make real power, on account of its capacity first, and the tougher internals it has second.
But its the this walls that are the issue, not that they cant handle 500hp, its that what is considered slight insignificant knock on a boosted M104 320 usually is enough to blow a gasket on the 3.6 since the cyl walls will shudder.

JayRash · #87 01-29-2010, 02:27 AM

Mag my man,
can this be true?!!!!! (DBILAS reply)
the AMG cams have : Inlet 252° with 9,5mm and outlet 250° 9,5mm.

can the amg have such mild profile? it really feels and sounds more agressive than that!

they offered me:
Part No.: 12.047.002-E (Inlet) Application: Sport
Part No.: 12.047.002-A (Outlet)
durations:
262
260

Valve lift TDC:
10,3
10,2

MAG58 · #88 01-29-2010, 02:39 AM

Wow, those are VERY mild cams for a performance application like the C36.

I wonder how well these heads really do flow to get that kind of power on cute little cams like that?

JayRash · #89 01-29-2010, 02:48 AM

Question is are they correct or have dbilas provided regular M104 cam profile?
i really doubt those are correct or it seems AMG have found more lift on the intake thru other ways.

M104 Cylinder Head differences...-12b.jpg

IIRC u can see that the intake cam on my engine has amore aggressive lobe to that of the exh one.

jhodg5ck · #90 01-29-2010, 12:27 PM

wow...if that's all the AMG cam is running and the 36 works as well as it does Well done AMG!

Mag, what are you looking @ for solids? I'm working on getting M119's set up w/ solids and hotter cams etc.. 190 16v lifter fits, now I just need a spring retainer that will fit w/ said valve and accept the 16V shim..

Anyone have any valve gear from a 16V they're not using??

Jonathan