Non MB trans to MB engines - Page 32 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

OM616 · #**466** 02-09-2018, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

stalled again i see. Im learning a new 3d cad program and i thought i remembered someone mentioning dxf files of the m119 pattern. the ford pattern for a t 5 is easy. if i can get the pattern i can draw it up and have it 3d printed, possibly in aluminum. if not, in plastic then cast it and the same cad file can machine it. im 3d printing some parts for my m117 turbo air meter i hope. id rater skip a step and put a m119 in the car though. too much work to put the 4 speed from the m117 on a m119 and possibly break it. ive alreadt got an auto bell that will easily adapt a t5 to the iron m117 but...... either way if anyone has dxf or dwg files of trans patterns i want them. prices to print are coming way down. the simplest thing still is a plate bolted on the motor with the bell that belong to the trans of choice doweled and bolted to it. a cad/cam mill can knock that out easy or even just have the coordinates printed and laid out to do it manually.

My effort is held up by the flywheel. I think I am just going to make a wheel for a M119 and mount the 420G to the M119 and M117 and not worrie about the M117 flywheel as they already exist.

Glen · #**467** 02-09-2018, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OM616

My effort is held up by the flywheel. I think I am just going to make a wheel for a M119 and mount the 420G to the M119 and M117 and not worrie about the M117 flywheel as they already exist.

I'm still interested if/when this comes to fruition.

OM616 · #**468** 02-09-2018, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

I'm still interested if/when this comes to fruition.

I feel really bad that this has turned into such a cluster... not how I wanted it to go. Getting a group of people to agree on anything is a challenge lol...

I still have two 420Gs and the block sections, and I picked up a BMW auto flywheel to use the ring gear so the starter can bolt up to the trans as intended, and it just happened to have a trigger ring with the same number of slots as the M119 ring, but it is larger in dia so I will have to move the crank sensor up a little.

I don't want to sent everything back without having completed the project, so I will make a M119 wheel with the BMW ring gear.

rwd4evr · #**469** 02-10-2018, 04:18 AM

I get that you have the g420 so it's your gearbox of choice, but it doesn't make sense if your trying to make a useful to other people conversion. I just looked around and they are unsupported for rebuilding or upgrade and rated to 370 lb/ft. Not to
Mention over 3500 for a reman box? You can get a nissan cd009 cheap or a Richmond 5 or 6 speed and driveshaft conversion for less. Even a t56 and everything you would nred would be less than this getrag.

rwd4evr · #**470** 02-10-2018, 04:26 AM

Oh I did just blow up the clutch in my manual trans 450slc so I'll have it out to see and measure the flywheel. I'm going to
Have it drilled for a 10.4" Chevy clutch which uses the same splines as a Mercedes or a bunch of BMW stuff and are dirt cheap. I'm
Fairly certain it may be just as easy to do the ford flywheel with Mercedes ring gear from an auto though. The iron m117 is a good bit larger than the alloy m117 or m119 though. If you get those measurements calculated for the blocks that would be great. I have all of them
But not really the equipment to accurately plot it.

OM616 · #**471** 02-10-2018, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwd4evr

I get that you have the g420 so it's your gearbox of choice, but it doesn't make sense if your trying to make a useful to other people conversion. I just looked around and they are unsupported for rebuilding or upgrade and rated to 370 lb/ft. Not to
Mention over 3500 for a reman box? You can get a nissan cd009 cheap or a Richmond 5 or 6 speed and driveshaft conversion for less. Even a t56 and everything you would nred would be less than this getrag.

Its not my project, I'm just the machinist making the parts. Like you said, everyone wanted a different trans lol... The project owner wants the 420G.

One of the ones I have has bad synchroizers and the other one I have is good but the clutch exploded destroying the bell housing. I am pulling the bell housing from the bad one and putting it on the good one. After I get the wheel made and the adapter for the trans and blocks done, I would be half tempted to pull the bad one down and make new synchronizers for it. Then again, having my shop space back again sounds good too lol..

VaiFanatic · #**472** 04-11-2018, 11:35 PM

Interesting to see this is still on-going.

I've got that T5 out of that 280ZX still sitting up at the shop, and I'm wondering what to do from a more long term perspective with my 500.

Part of me wants to look at a domestic motor/trans (yes, sacrilege, I know) combination to update the drivetrain of the car while maintaining the MB look and making it easy to service the motor via domestic dealers and the large aftermarket (cliche LS-motor or even a Coyote). Biggest cost to me will be the engine/trans, as all the fabwork and machining will be done by myself and buddy of mine with decades upon decades of experience with these things. Driveshaft would be simple, and perhaps not even an issue if a different rear-end was adopted to better match the chosen motor. Wiring doesn't strike fear into my heart either, so that's not really that big of a worry.

The other part of me wants to just attempt to get this T5 to work, fab up an EFI system for the M117, and call it good.

However, while there's more initial work involved in a motor swap, clutches, flywheels, etc. will not need to be remanufactured years down the road with the T5 swap; I simply order a new flywheel and clutch (assuming the flywheel is done for due to mileage) and I'm done.

I'm counting on some downtime soon, and more shop space, allowing me to get the 500 in to really begin considering my options.

cth350 · #**473** 04-12-2018, 08:47 AM

Dunno, with your list of skills, there's no reason not to keep an Mxxx under the hood. There are plenty of parts cars out there. Consider the alloy M117 to be disposable and just find a ready spare.

-CTH

VaiFanatic · #**474** 04-12-2018, 04:42 PM

I've already got a spare block and heads from another Euro car, would make for a perfect rebuild candidate.

I could always pick up a toasted 722 and chop the bellhousing and make an adapter plate to the T5. We're actually working on fitting a T5 to a Mazda Miata, and we chopped the bellhousing off the original 5-speed and welded up a plate to bolt to a another T5 (also with a removable bellhousing), and everything lines up as it should. Currently working on a custom throwout bearing ourselves and working with ATC on flywheel/clutch setup.

I cannibalized a W201 clutch pedal set to modify a spare 126 brake pedal assembly, so I've already got the clutch pedal IN the vehicle. I just need to drill a hole in the brake fluid reservoir to fill the clutch lines, install the master on the pedal, and plumb it to the slave of whatever transmission gets used.

I would love nothing more than to offer a cost-effective (or even DIY) solution for both this swap and EFI, but while the demand is "there", not many are willing to open their pocketbooks for these older cars.

Biggest flaw on the M117 is the whole timing chain and guide deal, but if you're on top of that, these motors are fairly robust. The Sauber C8 proved the 5.0 M117 can make a respectable amount of horsepower, just not for extended duration. Lack of aftermarket cam profile options limits things unless you can fab that up yourself or willing to pay a company like Elbe over in Europe for whatever they've got.

This basically presents a third option for me, and that is to move to the M119, which resolved any of the fatal flaws, is more fuel efficient, and while the aftermarket is just as lacking, it is capable of handling power a lot more reliably than the M117. Baseline megasquirt maps exist for the M119, so that makes ditching CIS-KE (assuming an early M119 is used) entirely possible.

iwrock · #**475** 05-04-2018, 02:32 PM

https://www.facebook.com/RennsportFactory/photos/a.1748126268818821.1073741828.1721300301501418/1863242463973867/?type=3&theater

pretty neat

cth350 · #**476** 05-04-2018, 02:55 PM

A thing of beauty. But they don't mention which box they'd bolt to the back of the M119. I have the benz 6-speed for an M112 buried in the basement someplace. I don't recall it matching up to the M117/M119. That is something I would have noticed.

-CTH

OM616 · #**477** 05-06-2018, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cth350

A thing of beauty. But they don't mention which box they'd bolt to the back of the M119. I have the benz 6-speed for an M112 buried in the basement someplace. I don't recall it matching up to the M117/M119. That is something I would have noticed.

-CTH

Any update on a fly wheel for our project? I picked up a MBW auto flywheel and the crank trigger ring is has the same number of teeth, but a little bigger diameter. The point of going with the BMW ring gear is to allow the starter to bolt up to the 420G properly.

The spacer / adapter is done except for finalizing the thickness which the flywheel is a consideration.

cth350 · #**478** 05-07-2018, 08:11 PM

Cast iron ford flywheel is on its way. I presume a 10 1/2 inch clutch is right?

Do we want that little spacer plate in the assembly? I presume so.

-cth

OM616 · #**479** 05-08-2018, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cth350

Cast iron ford flywheel is on its way. I presume a 10 1/2 inch clutch is right?

Do we want that little spacer plate in the assembly? I presume so.

-cth

I was planning on using the BMW disk and pressure plate. I have to check, but I think the disk is at least 10.500.

I have not been following things as closely these days... Do I assume correctly that some one discovered that the ford, M-119, m117 bolt patterns are manageable?

Are you planning on using the factory crank trigger on the ring gear, or something on the front of the engine?

As for spacing, right now I have the pilot of the input shaft about 1/2 way inside the crank pilot. Goal is to keep the ring gear in the same location so depending on the trans geometry, the flywheel may need to be thicker.. Guess I will see what the ford looks like. I thought you found a shop that would make a custom one reasonable.

cth350 · #**480** 05-08-2018, 06:07 PM

Yes, there are two independent reports here the Ford fly wheel in conjunction with an original driven plate will do the job. You and I will hopefully become the third one.

Though you and I are being different by using the BMW driven plate instead of the Benz one.

My application will be a 1982 eurospec M117 alloy engine using that BMW ring gear, timing from the rear sensor, g420 speed tucked into a C126 coupe.

I just need to figure out the clutch pedal, which has been suggested can be rigged up from a W124 assembly. Followed by shifter installation.

-cth