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  #1  
Old 06-12-2010, 06:56 PM
etc..
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Palestine/Saudi Arabia
Posts: 155
Exclamation I Realy Need Your Help - Turbo Installation - Lots of Pics

First of all, thank you for taking the time to read this post.

Car Details:

1990 Mercedes w126 300 SEL Petrol.

Intro:

I am a newbie and i dont understand all the complex words you use when you talk about turbochargers but i do understand how the turbo works 100%. and please keep in mind that this is my first time to install a turbocharger on a naturally aspired engine.

Current Status:

I mounted the turbo system on the car.. and installed the inter-cooler and all the air flow hoses. i tested them for pressure and none of them leaks any air.

Problem:

The waste gate does not open.. the turbo does not generate enough pressure.. the vacuum lines does not get hard when i step on the gas. the car performance is the same as it was before the turbo.

the BOV releases the air only when the RPM is ~5

Questions:

1- can the engine handle the pressure of the turbo? i seen some 300SEL's with superchargers online which lead me to believe that the engine can handle the pressure, but someone told me that it cant and now im afraid to go any further. i dont want to damage my engine.

2- How hard should the waste gate be? how much power or pressure does it need to open. i try to pull it with my hand but i can't. (its that hard to pull) is this normal?

here is a link to a google document that includes pictures. if you need more pictures or info let me know.

http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddkz74cx_86pwrxjghk
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  #2  
Old 06-12-2010, 08:24 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 213
can you please explain a little bit more around the problems you are having with the wastegates,
the system should have 2 of them, one an exhaust wastegate to limit boost pressure from the turbo, this is the vacume/boost actuator on the side of the turbo, this should hold a simple flap valve in the turbo housing closed until boost gets to a pre-set level normally set from factory by the actuator, but you will need a 5psi actuator if that one is set higher? and then a boost tap to fine tune pressure,

and then there is the intake wastegate, people refer to this as a blowoff valve and makes the psssht sound to release air pressure when engine revs drop, these normally have hard springs and are difficult to push, you need a 5psi spring in this also, and it also needs a vacume line to the intake manifold after the butterfly.

you are going to need some additional fuel in the system to make more power and prevent you melting your engine, an additional injector set-up seems like the easiest/most cost effective way to do this, hopefully someone will add info on this
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  #3  
Old 06-12-2010, 11:18 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canada / Lebanon
Posts: 223
The pictures are really messy and i dont seem to really understand the setup.
If you need more help we need to know what setup have you gone, like your turbo spec, intercooler,exhaust manifold, air feed, pipes size.
By just looking at your pictures i am unsure on your vaccum lines man....what have u gone on those? are you sure your vaccum test got no leak?
it seems a leak problem man
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  #4  
Old 06-13-2010, 02:06 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bulgaria, Sofia
Posts: 584
Quote:
Problem:

The waste gate does not open.. the turbo does not generate enough pressure.. the vacuum lines does not get hard when i step on the gas. the car performance is the same as it was before the turbo.

the BOV releases the air only when the RPM is ~5
If the turbo does not generate pressure it means that there could be a vacuum/boost leak or the wast gate flap is probably open or not fully closed. Check if the actuator arm is connected to the wast gate flap, also try to adjust the actuator arm (if its adjustable) so that the waste gate flap is in the fully closed position when there is no exhaust gas pressure i.e. car turned off.

Quote:
1- can the engine handle the pressure of the turbo? i seen some 300SEL's with superchargers online which lead me to believe that the engine can handle the pressure, but someone told me that it cant and now im afraid to go any further. i dont want to damage my engine.
From the pictures it looks like your running the m103 engine, so yes it can handle the pressure just fine (if tuned correctly ). This is the same engine that Pumpish, Ed(RBYCC), me and other people on this forum are running turbo charged for quite some time (most of the projects have threads).
__________________
190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)
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  #5  
Old 06-13-2010, 08:22 AM
etc..
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Palestine/Saudi Arabia
Posts: 155
ok.. thank you all for your replies,

here is an update, i removed the vacuum line that connects to the turbo (from turbo to inter cooler) and stepped on the gas (the waste gate is closed) and still there is no pressure.

so im guessing the turbo is not functioning properly , so as Joreto said, maybe the waste gate is broken or malfunctioning. im gonna change the turbo today. i'll let you know what happens.

and i will take some more pictures that describes the setup better and the vacuum lines too.

wish me luck
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  #6  
Old 06-13-2010, 02:21 PM
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 77
Have you driven it? Generally it won't boost until you put it under load.
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  #7  
Old 06-13-2010, 05:38 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bulgaria, Sofia
Posts: 584
A very good point .
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190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)
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  #8  
Old 06-14-2010, 02:56 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 213
i think you need to be very careful osama,
i have concerns that you are going to melt a piston and ruin your engine because you are not confident and knowledgable enough about turbo systems,
i think you need to spend more time reading around here+online.
i wouldnt run anymore than 3psi on a stock fuel system, and if you want to go over 5psi you are going to need an additional method of fuel enrichment.

magnumPI is correct about the need for load for boost.

you seem to have done very well tho getting to where you are with the build!
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  #9  
Old 06-15-2010, 05:09 AM
etc..
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Palestine/Saudi Arabia
Posts: 155
i f**ked up!

i didn't melt the piston, but the hood pad caught on fire! damages are minimal and i'll start the repair tonight, the heat shield i had on was cracked and leaked heat!

im so disappointed .. but the one thing that made me happy is that it gave me "good" performance when i changed the turbo to a smaller one.

where i come from, NO ONE and i mean NO ONE know **** about turbo systems, the repair specialist thinks that that waste gate is to give more pressure not to limit it. so getting a new injection system well be very hard. i can buy online but i will be needing your help guys. because we also don't have a postal service, the shipping will have to be through ARAMEX or DHL.

first im gonna put all my effort on the heat shield, it was soooooo hard finding a hood pad and the wires for the engine.

thank god i noticed the fire early .. stopped the car and put it out before the damage was serious.
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  #10  
Old 06-15-2010, 02:35 PM
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 77
Well, they'd be lying if anyone's ever said they haven't botched something. Don't get discouraged. Might I recommend Corky Bells book on Turbochargers:
http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-Turbocharger-Engineering-Performance/dp/0837601606/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276622804&sr=8-1

This is also a nice product for using on that boost line on the wastegate if you haven't already got that worked. I didn't see in the pictures:
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-FTG-010&Category_Code=BCS

Hopefully your experimenting on something cheap!
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  #11  
Old 06-20-2010, 05:06 AM
etc..
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Palestine/Saudi Arabia
Posts: 155
ok.. repair is finished.. im now waiting for the new heat shield .. im gonna use these:
http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/header_wrap.php
item number: 325005

http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/turbo_heat_shield_kit.php
item number :30001

http://www.heatshieldproducts.com/insul-boot.php
item number: 400201

will these do the job ?!

now.. i tuned the wastegate to open at 0.2 bar just to be safe. i want to know what is the best turbo to install on my stock m103 12v engine? and if you can help me with choosing the right injectors for the job.

everything i have on the car is stock.
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  #12  
Old 06-20-2010, 08:14 AM
JayRash's Avatar
DON'T PANIC
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Beirut, Lebanon
Posts: 1,278
Man none of us needed any of this protection, check if ur exhaust is blocked ok.
cut it open from the down pipes and drive.
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Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed
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  #13  
Old 06-21-2010, 07:07 PM
etc..
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Palestine/Saudi Arabia
Posts: 155
Thumbs down

its a shame.

after i've gone this far.. i had to cancel the project.

there are many reasosn.. where i live (Palestine) finding parts for my car is hard.. and finding mod parts is impossible.

i could not get any ECU upgrade or programming.. there is no Dyno anywhere.. i cant find the number of the turbo installed on my car..

many things are missing.. and most importantly , experience in turbocharging a car.

i was so afraid i was gonna damage my engine, and engine cost a lot of money here.. at least $4k.

the car is back to normal... everything is stock again. and until i can find a COMPLETE KIT or until i can gather all the necessary parts together.. i will not start this project.

i wish i had more options or resources.. but even shipping item from another country is hard due to the occupation and so called "security reasons"

man F*&%k occupation. i had my hopes skyhigh that im gonna pull it off and the car would be the first manually supercharged car in Palestine, West Bank. but i crashed down like rock.

last but not least.. thank you all for you help and support, you have been most helpful to me.
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  #14  
Old 06-22-2010, 04:41 PM
nick.ged's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 393
as far as enrichmet is concerned, i have a complete turbo technics fule regulator with extra injectorsfor sale. if you get a split second controler, yuo would only need a laptop to tune it, not a rolling road. std engine should hold 7 psi ok, you can sill have the car you want it will just take time.
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ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often
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  #15  
Old 06-22-2010, 05:19 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 4,642
I have this book at home and would highly recommend it if you can ship it to your country:
http://www.amazon.com/Street-TurbochargingHP1488-Installation-High-Performance-Turbocharger/dp/1557884889/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1277237806&sr=8-1

Very good "beginners" guide to designing turbo systems, and also own the Corky's book above. Both are excellent and provide high level overviews...The street turbocharging book at the link above is a bit better in the math department but not overwhelming. I'd suggest reading up about it while your parts are still in the box.
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Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth
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