I remember seeing this post regarding M104 head on the rev

ok, ford and merc cosworths have solid types.

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500whp.net

Bahaimus, I knew those would fit! I had my mom's 1.8t apart when the timing belt broke (surprise, right?) and I sat one lifter next to my '104 lifters on the bench and almost got them mixed up. The fact that they make solid lifters for these cars is great news.

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1993 190E 2.6 Sportline

kinsi, you miss the point, when amg modified the 103 engine, they modifyed the rockers, removed the hydralic tappets, and replaced them with solids out of the cozzy... i can provide pics of my head if anyone needs to visualise how it was done.

we were trying to find out if this mod could be done with the 104 heads,

i think you are one of the guys who may be able to pull this off.

some will say is it worth it, and i think it deffinatly is, or amg wouldnt have done it on the 103, and other performance engines would run pumper rockers (wich they dont)

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ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

Oukei I missed a point again...

Öööh.. You are not looking for suitable follower from other engine? You seemd to be looking a cheap mod to that little piston inside the follower?


By the way I am still running M104.94 hydraulic. Inlet side is only little modifyed.

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500whp.net

Nick, I'm interested in the pics. I still have my solids from the 16V head. Btw what are the benefits from this conversion?

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190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)

i am not sure of the technical reasons, but it seems that hydralic lifters struggle with prolonged high revs and can loose there tolerances, one post spoke of them becoming unstable?

propperly adjusted manual tappets can hold their adjustment and tolernce whiltst being thrapped repeatedly.

i adjust mone every 1000 miles.

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

Mechanical lifters allow a more radical ramp angle than hydro's. They can run higher lift with more duration at max gross lift at a greater RPM.

Hydro's are heavier than mechanicals (usually) which also means more reciprocating mass in the valve train. Exceptions to this are things like old datsun L series motors and merc M180's where the lifter is anchored to the head and the rocker articulates against the cam on it. M117's and a bunch of other older mercedes engines were like this.

Hydro's also have check valves in them. That means off lift the oil pressure can flow in to keep the lifters 'pumped up' and under lift, the check valve closes to keep the oil from flowing out. At high rpm's the check valve has trouble oscillating quickly enough to keep all the oil in the lifters and they will 'pump down' leading to that notorious clatter that JayRash talks about. This is exaggerated by high spring pressures, tons of ramp angle on the cams, and high rpms.

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1993 190E 2.6 Sportline

And also in mild cams. Always check is the cam suitable with hydraulic adjusters, even if not revving high.

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500whp.net

Thanks for the info ! Now one important question, I'm using the stock cam with a rev limiter at 7000 rpm, should I consider changing to solid lifters or am I ok with the current hydraulic ones ? At this point I'm more interested if the stock setup can handle the 7000 rpm limit .

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190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)

Cam manufacturers such as Crane recommend not to use a solid lifter on a hydraulic cam due to ramp profile.
Can cause damage to the cam...

Direct from a Crane newsletter:

"Did You Know . . . . .

. . . .That it is not advisable to run mechanical lifters on a hydraulic camshaft? Although certain racing applications could benefit from the additional RPM potential of the mechanical lifters (and some racers do so), the ramp design of the hydraulic lobes is not designed for use with valve lash. The harshness (evidenced by the valve train noise) will rapidly shorten the life of the camshaft and lifters, and also the rest of the valve train. Never run hydraulic lifters on a mechanical camshaft, as immediate lifter pump-up will occur, leading to a lack of performance and maybe engine failure."


But on this forum, I'm sure it's being done and making mega power without any problem...

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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES

Nick...

Did AMG also install a solid lifter profile cam in your 3.2 ?
My guess is yes, as cams were one reason for the higher power output over stock.

Ed A.

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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg
1971 280SL ROADSTER
1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY
1994 E320 CABRIOLET
1999 C43 AMG
2005 G55K AMG
2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES

so if thats the case then every time my lifters start cloncking after / during one of my hard runs, im doing the cams in.

thou my mechanic said i souldnt worry abt it but i think i might and i will save and have the lifters changed with a new set. wont be cheap i think., but cheaper than an AMG intake cam.
Ironic is that the M104 AMG has that rough cam sound from factory.

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Jay,
-----------------
-1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;(
-1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady)
-1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman
Twin turbo Kit).
-1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen)
-1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold)
-1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold)
http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed

yes ed, the amg mods to the head were

bigger valves

much larger ports

manual lifters

re profiled cam,

alloy rotor arm holder

i wouldn't worry about the info from crane cams as our cams are for autos, and dont have radical profiles, even the amg ones are, i think, way less than 170 duration and not really 'hight' lift items, not much overlap either, wich is why they boost so well


if i was building a a 103 turbo motor, wich was to be revved to 7000, and had the head off, or was replacing the cam, i would defiantly do the manual conversion to the tappets, for the 104... i would have to have a look round to see what i could come up with.

__________________
ce 320 amg
widebody
tiwn turbo
Mutty 'der nail'
soon to be a six speed nail


"some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer"

if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading).
Dont forget to polish it often

I have 3 M104 head sitting on my work bench.... Actually I think they're all still there, it's been a few months since I've seen any place besides my classroom, bed, or work...


But they're all a little different, including but not limited to valve height. I think it's going to be an individual setup basis. I guess that's another digit I owe Eric (Still remembering crank weights)

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1993 190E 2.6 Sportline