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#1
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Need ideas for a 300 TE
I have to apologize in advance for this thread, I am not well versed in Mercedes performance anything and am really at a loss on what direction I would like to go.
I have been trying to find a second Mercedes that would be more of a project.....I even started a thread to find out what I can fit in because of my height. I came to the realization that I really like my wagon, it is a 1989 300 TE, and I think I might just get a second one as a project, get some "go fast" stuff, and work on the suspension. Problem is that I do not see much to do with the M103 and any real performance upgrades. I have seen a way (what I believe) overpriced turbo setup, I see some people here have put together their own system, and I am aware of a few engine swaps because they have been mentioned but cannot find any real information on them. I am really interested in what my options are for engine swaps, I have heard of a AMG Hammer Wagon build as well as a few people swapping out for the AMG Inline Six. I am not really familiar with any of the engines mentioned. What engine would have been used in a Hammer and what AMG Inlines would be the most likely candidates? Also, The wagon I am using as an everyday driver is already an automatic and I have never been an auto fan. What would be my options for a manual transmission for any of the mentioned engines (including the M103 if I decide to look into the turbo option)? |
#2
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I may be biased but if you want handling the 124ch 4-Matic wagon is hard to beat. Most people don't realize how grippy of a car they are. The 4-Matic sedans as well as the 2WD wagons just do not have the grip of the 4-M wagon. The only car they built back then that had more grip was the 190E 16V which for all intents and purposes was a factory rally car.
As far as performance, the 103 gets very little love. Most people go custom turbo as there is virtually nothing for N.A. performance. I've done several breathing mods to mine and have a pretty hot 103 for N.A. Unfortunately my mods are all homegrown and as such not easily repeatable. As far as swapping in other engines, all of MB's common inline sixes share bellhousings, and mountings such that a swap could be done with factory parts.
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90 300TE 4-M Turbo 103, T3/T04E 50 trim T04B cover .60 AR Stage 3 turbine .63 AR A2W I/C, 40 LB/HR MS2E, 60-2 Direct Coil Control 3" Exh, AEM W/B O2 Underdrive Alt. and P/S Pulleys, Vented Rear Discs, .034 Booster. 3.07 diffs 1st Gear Start 90 300CE 104.980 Milled & ported head, 10.3:1 compression 197° intake cam w/20° advancer Tuned CIS ECU 4° ignition advance PCS TCM2000, built 722.6 600W networked suction fan Sportline sway bars V8 rear subframe, Quaife ATB 3.06 diff |
#3
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Can the 4-Matic handle the higher hp alright? When I was looking for my current wagon it seemed that people either loved or hated the system....The ones that hated it mentioned that it was not reliable and difficult to work on, so I figured I find one without it and study up on it when/if the time came.
I have been doing some reading since I posted this and it does seem that the 103 gets very little attention, is there any reason why? it seems like a hearty solid engine? What are the differences between the stock M104 and the one in the AMG vehicles? It is the M103 that is used for the C36, right? Also, is it easier to stay with an automatic instead of swapping in a standard transmission? It does not seem like there are many options, or at least any one decent option. |
#4
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Joreto has indeed built both an inexpensive & legit turbo set up for his 190E M103 project. If indeed you are serious about "respectable" hp increase to your 300E, can't see it was difficult & certainly presents a better case than attempting NA performance mods to our cars, without the necessary experience, as duxthe1 has stated in his post, else cost would far outway the performance increase advantage!
Everytime I have been involved with performance mod advice/decision making concerning Jap car builds, turbocharging has always been both the cheapest 'bang-for-buck' mod you can do to any vehicle, if your intent is simplistic, respectable hp increase. $ for $, NA takes more to get similar results than FI & to attempt to get equal power will set you back incredible $'s period! Also. Concerning Jap performance mods. Half the hassle is dealt with due to the necessary componentry readly available such as ECU's; EFI, engines with already stock strengthened internals, even easily obtainable engine/running gear swaps available @ a price. The main hurdle you must overcome if you do decide to enhance performance in a big way to our cars is the mechanical injection set up along with the stock chassis components & running gear. At least our engines an handle huge power increases stock. Unlike most other engines with stock internals, requiring strengthening to handle any decent hp increase & remain reliable. Unfortunately, as with duxthe1's build, Joreto's was mainly hands on personal work as well Alternative? Swap in a 3.6L engine to have the viable performance increase you seek Hope this helps
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um.....why have men got nipples Last edited by BAD300; 12-28-2010 at 07:36 PM. |
#5
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Quote:
Just saying.
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Allen Kroliczek Oak Grove Autosport | Oak Grove Autosport 01 G500, 82 300TD, quite a few more..... |
#6
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I don't doubt that your coupe with big bars can hold a curve but that 16V is a beast.
The 124ch 4-matic cases are pretty tough. I've never seen a catastrophic failure. Lots of hydraulic failures, but never seen a broken part. FWIW, my first wagon (R.I.P.) had a mosselman twin turbo kit on it. The lady that owned it before me beat the hell out of that thing for 100k mi with 6psi boost. I sold the case out of it and it it's still on the road. My current wagon gets the snot beat out of it on a regular basis at 257Kmi. No case problems but I'm about to break the front driveshaft at the splines. When it came to inline sixes, AMG mainly just upped the displacement. The 3.6 is a stroked version of the OM104 3.2L. The OM103 3.0L can also be stroked with the same crank to a 3.4. A few of those were even overbored to 3.6! Amassing the parts to build a stroker will cost a medium fortune. Direct swapping a salvaged 3.6 is the cost effective option. There were factory manual trans options but they are rare in the states. A few have worked on getting non M/B manuals installed as well. However if you do decide to go with a 4-Matic then the auto is the only option.
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90 300TE 4-M Turbo 103, T3/T04E 50 trim T04B cover .60 AR Stage 3 turbine .63 AR A2W I/C, 40 LB/HR MS2E, 60-2 Direct Coil Control 3" Exh, AEM W/B O2 Underdrive Alt. and P/S Pulleys, Vented Rear Discs, .034 Booster. 3.07 diffs 1st Gear Start 90 300CE 104.980 Milled & ported head, 10.3:1 compression 197° intake cam w/20° advancer Tuned CIS ECU 4° ignition advance PCS TCM2000, built 722.6 600W networked suction fan Sportline sway bars V8 rear subframe, Quaife ATB 3.06 diff |
#7
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Quote:
always looked for a 4matic wagon, just never found one i liked. awd is a beautiful thing.
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Allen Kroliczek Oak Grove Autosport | Oak Grove Autosport 01 G500, 82 300TD, quite a few more..... |
#8
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They are getting harder to find every day. Most people that own them have no clue, they just putt around everywhere. They are painfully slow in stock trim afterall. Few know that you can throw those things at a curve hard. It's big and heavy and most people don't want to push it to the point of understeering. What they don't realize as that as soon as it starts to understeer it will lock the case and the front wheels will dig in and you can then push it even harder through the curve.
I know I'm a little sick in the head but I get my jollies trying to light the traction lamp on dry pavement. Sorry for the hijak
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90 300TE 4-M Turbo 103, T3/T04E 50 trim T04B cover .60 AR Stage 3 turbine .63 AR A2W I/C, 40 LB/HR MS2E, 60-2 Direct Coil Control 3" Exh, AEM W/B O2 Underdrive Alt. and P/S Pulleys, Vented Rear Discs, .034 Booster. 3.07 diffs 1st Gear Start 90 300CE 104.980 Milled & ported head, 10.3:1 compression 197° intake cam w/20° advancer Tuned CIS ECU 4° ignition advance PCS TCM2000, built 722.6 600W networked suction fan Sportline sway bars V8 rear subframe, Quaife ATB 3.06 diff |
#9
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Duxthe1, can u remind me how u got the cam advance of 3 deg on ur merc?
was it just by milling the head? and did u ever try setting it with 3 deg of retard?
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Jay, ----------------- -1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;( -1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady) -1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman Twin turbo Kit). -1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen) -1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold) -1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold) http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed |
#10
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Find an M104 and a 5-speed from the R129; puts out 245hp, are common and cheap. It's what we're gonna do with our 300E race car when the M103 bites the dust.
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- Brian 1989 500SEL Euro 1966 250SE Cabriolet 1958 BMW Isetta 600 |
#11
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When I bought this car a few years ago I could find 4-Matics everywhere, now it seems like I cannot find one at all......I realize that having said that someone will find one on ebay or somewhere else.
Is the 4-Matic something I can collect the needs parts for and install? I imagine it is all tied into the main harness and would probably get complicated. I have also read that the 104's are not quite as stout (if that is the correct term?) as the 103's? also, did the 104 have a variable cam? is it possible to install piston oilers? I have come across info saying that you could tap into the 103 block for oilers. I have always been an inline six guy, I also have a 66 Mustang with one, my CJ-7 has one, as well as a 95 325i but with the automatic transmission that thing is a dog and it is literally falling apart....It is like someone pressed the self destruct button. I am more interested in sticking with the inline 6 but if a V8 is possible without too much trouble and not completely throwing the balance of the car off I would be interested in it. |
#12
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Is there any other information I need when looking for one, certain years, models, or anything that might matter?
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#13
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Jay, The cam gear can be installed a couple of ways, straight up, 3 advanced and 3 retarded. I never ran it retarded as I needed more low end so when I swapped my head I set it up advanced. There was an AMG gear that would do 2, 4, 6, and 8 degrees but after several attempts to get one I gave up looking and went with the 3 degree advance that the stock gear allows.
Trying to swap a 4-matic drivetrain isn't a good idea. The floorpan is different relative to the 2wd cars to get clearance for the t-case and driveshaft. It may be possible but too "messy" to be worthwhile. What it boils down to is just buy the 4-M car to start with. While I wouldn't say the 104 isn't as stout as the 103, I think the 103 is the better engine. No one major reason but a lot of little reasons that add up to it. Still the 104 is a good engine but I just like my 103 better.
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90 300TE 4-M Turbo 103, T3/T04E 50 trim T04B cover .60 AR Stage 3 turbine .63 AR A2W I/C, 40 LB/HR MS2E, 60-2 Direct Coil Control 3" Exh, AEM W/B O2 Underdrive Alt. and P/S Pulleys, Vented Rear Discs, .034 Booster. 3.07 diffs 1st Gear Start 90 300CE 104.980 Milled & ported head, 10.3:1 compression 197° intake cam w/20° advancer Tuned CIS ECU 4° ignition advance PCS TCM2000, built 722.6 600W networked suction fan Sportline sway bars V8 rear subframe, Quaife ATB 3.06 diff |
#14
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^+
Splitting hairs a bit comparing the M103/4 engines imo. The M103 top is a little more robust & simpler for forced injec' modding, from what I gather from Romans' posts. Bottom ends are the same except for the oil squirters & windage tray in the M104, as 400Eric pointed out to me. Also factor in fact your more likely to source a lower mileage M104 engine then the earlier 103's. I wouldn't stress over this factor too much......
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um.....why have men got nipples Last edited by BAD300; 12-29-2010 at 11:11 PM. |
#15
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Quote:
I like my RWD... I can swing the rear out pretty wide, and control it easily. It makes for some pretty fun/wild times when at the limit. As for ideas... My suspensions pretty modified, and its a corner monster. 500E bars front and rear, custom springs, sportline bushings, all adjustable rear links. Its very fun to drive, and very tossable. I am working on the power part now, brainstorming ideas on what I want to do!
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-Justin 91 560 SEC AMG - other dogs dd 01 Honda S2000 - dogs dd 07 MB ML320 CDI - dd 16 Lexus IS250 - wifes dd it's automatic. |
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