103 Turbo Manifold Adaptors! - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

duxthe1 · #31 08-02-2011, 10:28 PM

Been fighting the exhaust leak for the last few days. I made a new EGR tube that sealed better but was disappointed that the leak persisted. Close inspection revealed that cylinder 4 was leaking exhaust at the manifold, underneath.

I pulled the manifold back out this evening and looked for the cause. I was suspicious of the bolts that mount the outer adaptor plate. They are proud by about .25mm but I fully expected that the gasket would make up any difference. Thinking that was the cause I got a new sharp bastard file and planned to get'em flush. That unfortunately wasn't the problem.

A straight edge against the manifold revealed about 1mm warpage. It wouldn't be much of a problem except that #4 is the end of the front section of the manifold. Since the next lower bolt for #5 is a seperate section of manifold it doesn't contribute any gasket compression to #4. Since the rear bolt for # 4 is the upper bolt, it does little to get compression to the bottom part of the gasket.

Luckily a co-worker has a nice sandpaper plane that I used to help starighten it out. Though it was warped more than I was gonna plane off. In a great moment of foresight I had my parts guy order me in two new exhaust manifold gaskets yesterday. They are after all just steel shim stock that has raised indentions that get compressed to seal the manifold. After filing and planing as much as my tired arms would do I double stacked the manifold gaskets and put it all back together. Another disappointing start-up, tic, tic, tic. Determined to make it better I put the wrench on the #4 bolts and torqued them as much as I dare. Limited success! While I can hear a slight leak when revving it under the hood, I no longer hear the annoying leak with the windows down driving off.

Right now my plan is to obtain a couple of the hardest studs I can find and replace #4's studs. I'm also gonna keep a 12mm wrench in the car. Every time I get a good long drive and get the manifold really hot I'm gonna torque down on #4 again until I get enough compression on the gaskets to get a good seal.

Lesson: check your used 603 manifold for warpage before you install it.

duxthe1 · #32 08-04-2011, 09:57 PM

Been working at wrapping up some of the minor details. I got my O2 sensor wiring out of the door jamb. I opened up one of the bolt holes in the firewall to allow the grommett to fit nicely. Once through the firewall it wraps around the battery and meets its connector behind the plastic cover for the modules. An extension cable set was fashioned to go through the bulkhead and meet the connectors near the trans tunel. Of course I did the signal and heater wiring together. Monitoring the O2 through my "Lambda Controller" I can see that it works a lot better close to the turbo. The oscillations are probably twice as frequent as when it was down under after the downpipes.

I scored a small Audi vacuum canister at the junkyard. I've mounted it on the firewall near to the Aux pump. I also grabbed a check valve at the 'yard, which goes between the manifold and canister. From the canister I run a vacuum line to the right side fender to feed my switchover valves. I put the valves outboard of the battery. With the full size battery there is just enough room for the valves and lines. As fate would have it, both of my switchover valves are bad. One doesn't switch, the other leaks vacuum when not switched, the same as my tester valve in my tool box. So for now, no EGR, or diverter for that matter. Not too concerned about the diverter, my pump is seized but I have a good used part to install when I can get the time. Given that I've never had a check engine light on this car (it does work) my CIS module must be determined never to light it. EGR doesn't work, no C/E, my airpump is inop, no C/E, no O2 heater (for about a week) again, no C/E.

Back to the EGR, I do want to have it working. It will lower combustion temps and slow the flame front, both of which I think will be good things for my setup. I have played with the valve and I'm pretty sure that it flows too much as is. It's enough to stall the engine at idle. It should roughen up the idle but not stall. I'm going to have to make some "EGR jets" from brass to install between the valve and charge pipe. For now the hole is approx 10-11mm. My gut tells me that somewhere between 5 and 8mm will be the sweet spot.

In addition to a good used switchover valve I'm trying to find a hobbs switch without having to buy one at full retail. (the budget is stretched quite thin and I couldn't slip another dime past my other half) I'd like to take the full load contact from the throttle switch and ground it around 2-3 PSI. I'm not sure how much it will pull the timing back but I could use a little breathing room. With a cold engine I get pinging in the upper revs if I boost hard in second gear. If I can get full load timing without having to hang the throttle wide open, I'm betting it will help. I'll feel more comfortable working on the fuel tune if I can get a few more degrees of cushion. It is after all still really rich on boost.

whipplem104 · #33 08-04-2011, 10:28 PM

I use to use a switch on boost for full throttle contact when I used cis. I gutted and old closing assist pump from an w140 sclass and used one of the pressure switches to make one. I think I have it around somewhere. I could send it to you if I could find it. This is a great setup for boost on stock cis-e. It puts everything in full load fuel.

duxthe1 · #34 08-05-2011, 12:00 AM

Cool idea!

I think I probably have one of those pumps laying around. I had been toying around with the idea of adding one of those pumps in a vacuum assist setup but it hasn't seemed needed now that I'm driving it. Hadn't even thought about the pressure switch.

I need the full load signal to retard the spark a bit. The 220 Ohm trim helps a lot but under certain conditions I still have too much timing for the boost I'm running. There's communication between the EZL and CIS on this model. I'm banking on the full load info from the CIS influencing the EZL's map. The enrichment controller has control of the fuel on boost so the CIS is out of the loop. The CIS gets control all non-boost conditions. So If I can get the timing backed up a bit furtheron boost I'll be golden. Hell, if I can get on boost timing handled I may even be able to go to a slightly more aggressive trim for better off boost response.

duxthe1 · #35 08-07-2011, 01:00 PM

A couple pics of the boost pressure switch ~ala Whipple104. I pulled the switch out of a 140 door close pump and soldered it onto a small prototype board. Adjusted it to close at 3 PSI. Took a little cleaning of the contacts to get a consistent switch. Spent a little time debating where to hide it. Ideally it needed to be close to the throttle switch, protected from the elements, and have enough un-obstructed room to prevent interference with the switching. Turns out that the left foglamp cover fits the bill perfectly. A little trimming of the board gets a snug fit in the cover. A small stainless rod holds it tight in addition to the vacuum line.

The downer this weekend is that I blew the bottom out of the airhorn boot. I knew it would happen sooner or later with 263k on the odo, guess it was sooner. Since it's leaking measured air, I cant get on boost without going very, very rich. So it looks like I'm putting it around off boost until I can get a new boot under the airhorn early next week. So no results for the boost switch yet.

The other dark pic is the new location of the EGR and diverter switchover valves. I still dont have a good valve for either yet. It's a nice out of the way location that is within reach of hte stock harness, but its getting old having to pull the battery every time I want to try another valve.

JayRash · #36 08-07-2011, 02:22 PM

a new rubber boot will be so soft till blow out almost instantly, get it braced.

duxthe1 · #37 08-08-2011, 08:44 PM

God tip, Jay. I've got a boot ordered in for tomorrow. I may try to "weave" some stainless TIG filler wire into the ribs to re-enforce it. For 6$ extra I went with the OE boot. Been putt-ing around keeping it out of boost in the meantime. I've noticed a new issue with a high idle. I may have to re-think my boost switch. I suspect it may not be opening up soon enough when I let off the throttle. This lets the CIS see both the idle contact and full load contact simultaneously which I belive is screwing with the idle. Need to figure a way to use the third contact when under vacuum such that the signal can be one or the other but not both. I'd need the idle signal in series but the full load parallell to the switch. Need to draw a diagram and think on it a bit.

ForcedInduction · #38 08-10-2011, 12:48 AM

Why did you put an EGR on it?

duxthe1 · #39 08-10-2011, 01:30 AM

Several reasons, actually. EGR will lower the combustion temperature. It will slow down the flame front as well. Since this isn't an intercooled setup, both will help keep detonation at bay. Additionally, it will have to pass emissions. Assuming the emissions guys won't pass it, I'll have to get it re-certified. Having a functional EGR will go a long way towards that end. Lastly this car is a daily driver, and I prefer it not spew NOx, or for that matter HC, or CO. Hence the catalyst downpipe, too. Despite what everybody has been brainwashed to think, power and emissions compliance are not mutually exclusive.

Off the soapbox, I got the boot in. Jay called it.

Even with minimal re-enforcement, the new boot blew out in no time, 4th or 5th time I got on boost. Boy was she running sweet when it was able to keep the boost in the intake tract. I finally got to see the spool that the tiny turbo is capable of. THe old boot was leaking more than I realized. I had to lean out the Lambda considerably once I got it back together. Will get another boot and fiberglass the hell out of the thing before it goes in. Hopefully that will hold it. Looks like I'll be putting around off boost till the weekend.

ForcedInduction · #40 08-10-2011, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duxthe1

Lastly this car is a daily driver, and I prefer it not spew NOx, or for that matter HC, or CO.

So by turboing it, and increasing those, you somehow reduce them at the same time? A person that actually cares about emissions instead of posing to care, does not drive at all.

Quote:

Despite what everybody has been brainwashed to think, power and emissions compliance are not mutually exclusive.

And some people have been brainwashed to think an EGR and catalyst reduce emissions.
EGR= Increased HC and CO emissions, increased fuel consumption.
Cat= Open pit mining for precious metals, increased fuel consumption.

Emissions are best reduced in cylinder with good design and tuning. Bolting on junk to do it for you is just lazy.
An EGR doesn't reduce cylinder temperatures, it reduces the amount of combustion that takes place. The same can be done by reducing boost or reducing throttle.

duxthe1 · #41 08-10-2011, 02:15 AM

If you maintain that my tuning efforts are lazy b/c my car isn't a gross polluter, then I have an additional 100 LB/ft that begs to differ.

I've done specific modifications to the cylinder head that not only compliment the turbo, but also reduce HC output. Does that count as "in the cylinder" or is it still "lazy"? If you assert that I am a poser by keeping my emissions equipment in tact while performing modifications that increase both efficiency and power, then I assert that you sir are a troll, looking to incite conflict without basis.

Maybe you missed it, but this car is a daily driver. It originally came equipped with EGR. IF you re-read my reply you will notice that there are several reasons for keeping it. Feel free to rebut them all. Facts instead of assertions would be helpful.

Fact: EGR introduces non combustible air into the cylinder. That inert air is heated by the combustion process. Since energy is spent to heat that inert air the result is a lower peak combustion temperature. Lower peak combustion temp lowers NOx formation.

Opinion: Lower NOx formation is not a bad thing. Lower NOx formation while simultaneously lessening the tendency to detonate is a great thing.

RBYCC · #42 08-10-2011, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duxthe1

Several reasons, actually. EGR will lower the combustion temperature. It will slow down the flame front as well. Since this isn't an intercooled setup, both will help keep detonation at bay. Additionally, it will have to pass emissions. Assuming the emissions guys won't pass it, I'll have to get it re-certified. Having a functional EGR will go a long way towards that end. Lastly this car is a daily driver, and I prefer it not spew NOx, or for that matter HC, or CO. Hence the catalyst downpipe, too. Despite what everybody has been brainwashed to think, power and emissions compliance are not mutually exclusive.

Off the soapbox, I got the boot in. Jay called it.

Even with minimal re-enforcement, the new boot blew out in no time, 4th or 5th time I got on boost. Boy was she running sweet when it was able to keep the boost in the intake tract. I finally got to see the spool that the tiny turbo is capable of. THe old boot was leaking more than I realized. I had to lean out the Lambda considerably once I got it back together. Will get another boot and fiberglass the hell out of the thing before it goes in. Hopefully that will hold it. Looks like I'll be putting around off boost till the weekend.

Why not just use a water/alcohol spray under boost to drop the charge air temp.
This will produce more power instead of lessening combustion efficiency.

My latest state emissions test on 7/28/11 for my M103-12V CIS-E twin turbo:

HC (PPM ) = 140
CO ( % ) = 0.02

No EGR just one spun metal cat for each set of three cylinders.

remotemark · #43 08-10-2011, 10:47 AM

Ed - were those emission results under boost?

duxthe1 · #44 08-10-2011, 01:34 PM

I didn't go with water / alcohol injection b/c lines, pumps, and controls can fail, and reservoirs will run dry. The car already has provisions to control the EGR built in and less parts to fail or maintain. If this was a race car none of that would matter but it is a daily driver. I could care less about extracting the last 5% of power at the redline. I care about having gobs of usable torque in the RPM range it gets driven in. If I can do that and not be a gross polluter, so much the better.