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  #1  
Old 04-20-2011, 06:04 AM
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supercharger for 117 engine

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MERCEDES-W126-SEC-500-560-SUPERCHARGER-METH-INJ-/110676543853?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item19c4d6096d

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  #2  
Old 04-20-2011, 11:10 AM
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I've never seen one like that. I guess it's the Roots typer blower I'm more familiar with. That looks like a turbo charger to me.
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  #3  
Old 04-20-2011, 02:48 PM
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Its a centrifugal supercharger, same idea as a turbo except the impeller is belt driven and not exhaust driven. In all likelihood that was a universal procharger kit that someone just adapted to use with the M117 (thats what it looks like too, not a factory kit).
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  #4  
Old 04-20-2011, 03:15 PM
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Any advantages in one type over the other? The Roots type looks more substantial to me and seems designed on the same principle as the really big, heavy duty industrial air compressors I've seen.
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" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

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1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles
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  #5  
Old 04-20-2011, 05:32 PM
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Roots type are much more efficient

http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?id=5

This is a really good breakdown of the different types of SC. In general, centrifugal superchargers are just a heck of a lot easier to work with in custom applications because you can use the stock intake manifold and plenum. So in a case like the M117 where there are no(?) kits available this simplifies the work a lot. Also, since it is not sitting on top of the engine you can use it with stock hoods, and you could place it where an AC compressor or PS pump would go to save room. Unfortunately they tend to be pretty pricey and there aren't too many companies that make them. Most people want bolt-on streetable performance and don't want to mess with custom intake piping and all that so they go with off the shelf SC kits for their mustangs and camaros and whatnot.
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  #6  
Old 04-20-2011, 10:05 PM
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I've investigated the heck out of this subject. Firstly, I would have like to have seen what this looked like installed. The accessory system of the 116/117 is definitely not roomy or belt-friendly, particularly if you have A/C and an AIR pump (which might not have been on this Euro car).

It APPEARS as though the pulley has been modified so that the car might have been converted to all-serpentine belt. The supercharger might have been mounted where the A/C or AIR pump is located. I've seen a (Brabus) conversion where the supercharger was mounted where the alternator is, and (possibly) the alternator wound up somewhere where the AIR pump is or between the P/S pump and A/C.

Is that an electric water pump??

Meth(anol, I hope)???

I don't think that this system was designed for a "daily driver".

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Long term, I'd like to mount an Eaton M90 with GM/Hitachi 3800 throttle body/Megasquirt on a 380. I think I've got ideas about the belt problem but actually mounting the supercharger poses possibly insurmountable (for me) intake manifold challenges. Ideally, a sheet metal intake manifold would be great.
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  #7  
Old 04-21-2011, 04:28 PM
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Another one on UK ebay, although fitted and a lot cheaper... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260772615648&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1156
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  #8  
Old 04-21-2011, 11:21 PM
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Maybe the alternator is where the US air pump is. Interesting that a cogged belt, not a serpentine belt, is used. The cogged belt simply won't last as long on the street and will be much noisier. They are not cheap.

That may be a Powerdyne-style supercharger.

The casting for the "hat" looks good.

THEORETICALLY, the design of the stock system might be able to keep the fuel/air mixture correct, at least up to a point - not sure about full throttle.
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  #9  
Old 04-22-2011, 03:51 AM
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I thought roots type was less efficient than centrifugal.

My understanding was that the roots type would use more power to make the gains.
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  #10  
Old 04-22-2011, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StreekG View Post
I thought roots type was less efficient than centrifugal.

My understanding was that the roots type would use more power to make the gains.
exactly.
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  #11  
Old 04-22-2011, 07:25 AM
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roots superchargers have improved alot.
here is a dyno of two similar cars running the same boost levels one with a centrifugal and the other a roots.

http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24002
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  #12  
Old 04-22-2011, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StreekG View Post
I thought roots type was less efficient than centrifugal.

My understanding was that the roots type would use more power to make the gains.
The Roots and a few others are twin screw rotary positive displacement designs.
The Procharger that is listed is a centrifugal type.

The centrifugal is in essence a belt driven turbo in which the output varies with speed.
The positive displacement output does not vary as much with speed and provides a broader power band.

Centrifugals haven't improved much over the years whereas positive displacement have.

The positive displacement twin screws do take a bit more of the engine power to spin compared to the centrifugal compressor fan.
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  #13  
Old 04-22-2011, 10:41 AM
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I used to have a Thunderbird SC with the Roots type blower on it.
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OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles
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  #14  
Old 04-29-2011, 02:36 AM
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The Eaton line is pretty efficient, and has variable boost. A 3800 Buick could get 27 MPG and 220+ horsepower equipped with an M90. The M90 (which you would see on most GM Buick 3.8 SC engines) has a built-in bypass, and, supposedly, the supercharger bypassed (which it is on idle, for example) takes 1/3 HP to spin.

Full-bore, it's supposed to "cost" 25 horsepower, while making at least 2.5 times that at reasonable boost levels (which performance guys control with pulley changes). As long as you stay under 6 or 7 PSI, weird complex stuff like intercoolers and methanol aren't needed. Besides being expensive and complicated, there's just no room for them.

I was planning on using the Buick's entire Hitachi throttle body w/sensors, Ford injectors, Megasquirt (controlling a ford EDIS ignition) and possibly a knock sensor or two (but the 380SL has 8.3:1 compression). At a reasonable 6 pounds of boost (my conservative calcs with the pulleys I intend to use yield a bit over 6), I don't think 220HP and 22MPG on the highway are out of the question, which would put the 380 in range of a stock US 560 with better gas mileage. A big difference between the Buick and the MB is no torque converter lock-up on the MB transmission, which would really help on the highway.

Big mechanical challenges are the belt and idlers, mounting the supercharger, and hood clearance. But this project is 2+ years off. I've been gathering parts - I have a supercharger which I've rebuilt, ported and polished internally and externally, an EDIS setup, and a complete Hitachi throttle body. I have the pulley to weld onto a spare M116 pulley but we will see how that goes.

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