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#1
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supercharger for 117 engine
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ce 320 amg widebody tiwn turbo Mutty 'der nail' soon to be a six speed nail "some mods improve your car and make it into something it never was, other mods, however, although essentially the same, are not, and make that car a ricer" if your car isnt shiny, you dont know what you are talking about, remember; paint shine = knowledge. In order to be taken seriously, you should spend all your money on paint, (and get a dyno reading). Dont forget to polish it often |
#2
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I've never seen one like that. I guess it's the Roots typer blower I'm more familiar with. That looks like a turbo charger to me.
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" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century OBK #55 1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles 2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles 2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles |
#3
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Its a centrifugal supercharger, same idea as a turbo except the impeller is belt driven and not exhaust driven. In all likelihood that was a universal procharger kit that someone just adapted to use with the M117 (thats what it looks like too, not a factory kit).
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TC Current stable: - 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL - 2007 Saturn sky redline - 2004 Explorer...under surgery. Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth |
#4
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Any advantages in one type over the other? The Roots type looks more substantial to me and seems designed on the same principle as the really big, heavy duty industrial air compressors I've seen.
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" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century OBK #55 1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles 2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles 2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles |
#5
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Roots type are much more efficient
http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?id=5 This is a really good breakdown of the different types of SC. In general, centrifugal superchargers are just a heck of a lot easier to work with in custom applications because you can use the stock intake manifold and plenum. So in a case like the M117 where there are no(?) kits available this simplifies the work a lot. Also, since it is not sitting on top of the engine you can use it with stock hoods, and you could place it where an AC compressor or PS pump would go to save room. Unfortunately they tend to be pretty pricey and there aren't too many companies that make them. Most people want bolt-on streetable performance and don't want to mess with custom intake piping and all that so they go with off the shelf SC kits for their mustangs and camaros and whatnot.
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TC Current stable: - 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL - 2007 Saturn sky redline - 2004 Explorer...under surgery. Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth |
#6
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I've investigated the heck out of this subject. Firstly, I would have like to have seen what this looked like installed. The accessory system of the 116/117 is definitely not roomy or belt-friendly, particularly if you have A/C and an AIR pump (which might not have been on this Euro car).
It APPEARS as though the pulley has been modified so that the car might have been converted to all-serpentine belt. The supercharger might have been mounted where the A/C or AIR pump is located. I've seen a (Brabus) conversion where the supercharger was mounted where the alternator is, and (possibly) the alternator wound up somewhere where the AIR pump is or between the P/S pump and A/C. Is that an electric water pump?? Meth(anol, I hope)??? I don't think that this system was designed for a "daily driver". ________________________________________________________ Long term, I'd like to mount an Eaton M90 with GM/Hitachi 3800 throttle body/Megasquirt on a 380. I think I've got ideas about the belt problem but actually mounting the supercharger poses possibly insurmountable (for me) intake manifold challenges. Ideally, a sheet metal intake manifold would be great.
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86 560SL With homebrew first gear start! 85 380SL Daily Driver Project http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/mercedes.htm |
#7
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Another one on UK ebay, although fitted and a lot cheaper... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260772615648&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_500wt_1156
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#8
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Maybe the alternator is where the US air pump is. Interesting that a cogged belt, not a serpentine belt, is used. The cogged belt simply won't last as long on the street and will be much noisier. They are not cheap.
That may be a Powerdyne-style supercharger. The casting for the "hat" looks good. THEORETICALLY, the design of the stock system might be able to keep the fuel/air mixture correct, at least up to a point - not sure about full throttle.
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86 560SL With homebrew first gear start! 85 380SL Daily Driver Project http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/mercedes.htm |
#9
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I thought roots type was less efficient than centrifugal.
My understanding was that the roots type would use more power to make the gains.
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v9...Signiture2.jpg |
#10
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exactly.
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Jay, ----------------- -1995 Blue W202 C36 AMG (M) SOLD ;( -1995 Black W140 S500 (Lady) -1992 Black W124 E300 (Dima) (Ex-Mosselman Twin turbo Kit). -1988 Black W124 300 E 4-Matic.(Nadeen) -1983 Brown W126 500SEL.(Old Lady)(Sold) -1981 Gold W123 280CE.(Dareen)(Sold) http://www.youtube.com/user/jayrasheed |
#11
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roots superchargers have improved alot.
here is a dyno of two similar cars running the same boost levels one with a centrifugal and the other a roots. http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24002 |
#12
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Quote:
The Procharger that is listed is a centrifugal type. The centrifugal is in essence a belt driven turbo in which the output varies with speed. The positive displacement output does not vary as much with speed and provides a broader power band. Centrifugals haven't improved much over the years whereas positive displacement have. The positive displacement twin screws do take a bit more of the engine power to spin compared to the centrifugal compressor fan.
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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...c/GOWIDE-1.jpg 1971 280SL ROADSTER 1988 300CE TWIN TURBO WIDEBODY 1994 E320 CABRIOLET 1999 C43 AMG 2005 G55K AMG 2008 CLK63 AMG BLACK SERIES |
#13
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I used to have a Thunderbird SC with the Roots type blower on it.
__________________
" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century OBK #55 1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles 2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles 2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles |
#14
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The Eaton line is pretty efficient, and has variable boost. A 3800 Buick could get 27 MPG and 220+ horsepower equipped with an M90. The M90 (which you would see on most GM Buick 3.8 SC engines) has a built-in bypass, and, supposedly, the supercharger bypassed (which it is on idle, for example) takes 1/3 HP to spin.
Full-bore, it's supposed to "cost" 25 horsepower, while making at least 2.5 times that at reasonable boost levels (which performance guys control with pulley changes). As long as you stay under 6 or 7 PSI, weird complex stuff like intercoolers and methanol aren't needed. Besides being expensive and complicated, there's just no room for them. I was planning on using the Buick's entire Hitachi throttle body w/sensors, Ford injectors, Megasquirt (controlling a ford EDIS ignition) and possibly a knock sensor or two (but the 380SL has 8.3:1 compression). At a reasonable 6 pounds of boost (my conservative calcs with the pulleys I intend to use yield a bit over 6), I don't think 220HP and 22MPG on the highway are out of the question, which would put the 380 in range of a stock US 560 with better gas mileage. A big difference between the Buick and the MB is no torque converter lock-up on the MB transmission, which would really help on the highway. Big mechanical challenges are the belt and idlers, mounting the supercharger, and hood clearance. But this project is 2+ years off. I've been gathering parts - I have a supercharger which I've rebuilt, ported and polished internally and externally, an EDIS setup, and a complete Hitachi throttle body. I have the pulley to weld onto a spare M116 pulley but we will see how that goes.
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86 560SL With homebrew first gear start! 85 380SL Daily Driver Project http://juliepalooza.8m.com/sl/mercedes.htm |
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