300E Performance at ANY cost - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mushedroom · #31 08-13-2002, 09:57 PM

just buy a 500E and figure a way to make it into a coupe!!!

ke6dcj · #32 08-13-2002, 11:45 PM

If you got to keep the W124 coupe, if you're lucky keep an eye out for a 1995-1996 C36 engine, tranny, and computers.

You might find one for around $5-8K.

Your 1993 SportLine coupe should be HFM (hot film management), which makes the conversion easier since the pre-1997 C36 used HFM as well.

Don't try to do a 1997 C36 conversion, because it uses ME (Motoronic Electronics) and a 5-speed electronic tranny, which are intimately tied together.

Figure $10K if you're lucky.

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

#33 08-13-2002, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ke6dcj
If you got to keep the W124 coupe, if you're lucky keep an eye out for a 1995-1996 C36 engine, tranny, and computers.

You might find one for around $5-8K.

Your 1993 SportLine coupe should be HFM (hot film management), which makes the conversion easier since the pre-1997 C36 used HFM as well.

Don't try to do a 1997 C36 conversion, because it uses ME (Motoronic Electronics) and a 5-speed electronic tranny, which are intimately tied together.

Figure $10K if you're lucky.

Thanks Neil... am curious as to other alternatives:
- OBD-I E500/500E engine/tranny/ECU
- OBD-II E500 engine/tranny/ECU
- others ??

What makes the 95-96 C36 setup the "preferred" one ?? Is it the most natural fit ??

ke6dcj · #34 08-14-2002, 12:06 AM

Unless you got a lots of money, and time (6-months) to be without your car, anything can be done, including the 500E engine.

The 500E engine was not offerred at least in the USA with OBDII.

The 1995-1996 C36 is a natural fit for any of the W124's that use the HFM M104 engine because they are the same block, and the wiring/engine harnesses and locations/connectors for the computer are 99% there.

:-) neil

mushedroom · #35 08-14-2002, 12:30 PM

hey ke6dcj

i'd say he'd have to add more like 2 or 3 grand more just to get all the custom fit pieces, cut away at chasis, and then reinforce chassis, all that just to do that...

i want the seeds from his money tree...hehehehehehe

ke6dcj · #36 08-14-2002, 05:08 PM

mushedroom- I take it you mean chassis cutting for the M119 V8 being shoehorned in.

The C36 engine and tranny would take only 1-day to fit into ANY Inline-6 W124 chassis. Pre-HFM W124's is where the headaches develop, esp. wiring.

A 1993-1995 W124 with the M104 engine should be a 1-3 day swap for a M104 C36 (1995-1996) with an experienced MB tech.

The big problem will probably getting the A/C manifolds and hosing, unless you could move the A/C bracket of the W124 M104 engine onto the C36 M104 engine and then utilize the original W124 A/C compressor (the C36 one is VASTLY different).

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

mushedroom · #37 08-14-2002, 05:30 PM

got it...
that's odd though cause i've got the 300ce but 92 model, and it has the m104 engine and i think it's also hfm....

any good tips on converting my coupe to a 5 speed?
i've got a guy in maryland says it's all possible using m103 tranny, and all possible done installed with parts for ball park $2,000, all pro installed...
what are your thoughts...
any threads from people that have converted over to the stick side?

Ashman · #38 08-14-2002, 08:23 PM

the 92 is CIS-E I believe

Alon

mushedroom · #39 08-14-2002, 08:26 PM

alon the man the myth...
the brother from another mother....
dude you're the best
drove the 300CE into work today....and it's purring like a kitten in cozy comfy bliss...
even has a bit more pep in her step...
not to mention i think i gained a mile or two or even three per gallon....all from a new belt change...however, i think the belt's a little noise...kinda has a high pitched squeak sound (soft squeak) but a sound never the less....oh well price you pay i guess...
you are the best!!!!!
thanks again... for the help....

ke6dcj · #40 08-14-2002, 10:37 PM

Alon is correct. The early W124 coupes with the M104 engine had CIS not HFM.

The HFM M104 has the MAS above the exhaust; a cross-pipe; and an airbox behind the right headlight.

The CIS M104's has an airbox assembly that looks similar to the CIS M103.

FWIW, if you a have CIS M103, IF you wanted to upgrade to the M104 engine, you would want the early CIS M104, since the wiring and cruise control are essentially the same.

If you can get a M103 5-speed installed for a cost not to exceed $2.5K and not over 1-week, I'd do it, granted the 5-speed better be in good shape.

:-) neil

mushedroom · #41 08-15-2002, 11:56 AM

Quote:

earlier coupes have the M103 (3.0 L I-6) motor -- similar power, but the M104 has a better low-end.

this is actually not correct. earlier coupes (1992) have the m104 engines that are 3.0L 24V 217 hp.....not m103's at all.

#42 08-15-2002, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ke6dcj
Alon is correct. The early W124 coupes with the M104 engine had CIS not HFM.

The HFM M104 has the MAS above the exhaust; a cross-pipe; and an airbox behind the right headlight.

The CIS M104's has an airbox assembly that looks similar to the CIS M103.

How can you tell if a 93 W124 300CE (M104 motor) is CIS or HFM ?? Does chassy or VIN # tell us anything ??

Do you have pix of the engine views showing the difference ??

If you can get a M103 5-speed installed for a cost not to exceed $2.5K and not over 1-week, I'd do it, granted the 5-speed better be in good shape.
Any thoughts on a 5-speed manual conversion for an M104 ?? Has anyone here done it ? Would you also recommend an uprated rear-differential ratio ?

ke6dcj · #43 08-15-2002, 12:08 PM

Some of the transitional W124 coupes had the M104 engine (1991 or 1992?) but with CIS. When the M104 went to HFM and then ME (e.g., 1997 C36), that's when the real power came.

I don't know what you mean by is a 1993 manual "available"? Manual W124's were not shipped to the USA after 1988, so not "available."

Manual W124's were produced from 1985-1996 world-wide.

All manual 5-speeds for the M103 and M104 will bolt up with little modification. Getting it to work in car previously with an automatic will take a lot more than bolting-up the tranny.

Our local TradeExpress has a 1994 E320 Coupe (M104 w/HFM) for sale $21K w/61K miles (http://www.tradeexpress.com/detail.asp?adid=1095114) : 805-681-7310

Sell your car, and just upgrade. . .

:-) neil

el presidente · #44 08-15-2002, 12:36 PM

Quote:

[i]
AFAIK the M104 motor was introduced in the W124 in 1993. 1992 and earlier coupes have the M103 (3.0 L I-6) motor -- similar power, but the M104 has a better low-end.

[/B]

Actually,

The M104 3.0L 24-valve motor was imported to the US (on the coupe only) starting in MY 1990. It has two camshafts and 4-valves per cylinder making 217hp. The sedans of the same MY had the M103 powerplants (single camshaft / 12-valves/177hp).

The 1988-89 coupes had the M103 motors.

They switched to a 3.2L (still M104 designation) beginning in MY 1993 in both coupe and sedan. The slightly larger displacement allowed for additional torque (34 ft/lbs. more if I remember correctly), but horsepower remained the same at 217. The redline on the 3.2L engine was lowered to 6400rpm (from 7000 on the 3.0L).

In addition, the 300SL introduced in 1990 also had the M104 six and was available in a 5-speed manual.

Hope this helps

ke6dcj · #45 08-15-2002, 12:36 PM

The pictures in order show the following:

1) M103
2) M104-CIS
3) M104-HFM

The 1997 M104-ME looks identical to the M104-HFM.

:-) neil

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Euro light differences, 500E vs 300E.	JCE	Tech Help	16	09-20-2004 06:00 PM
92/93 300E or 94/95 E320	argyleco	Featured Cars	8	03-14-2004 12:59 AM
K&N Performance Air Filter for 300E 260E and 190E 2.6 M103	FA22	Mercedes-Benz Used Parts For Sale & Wanted	1	09-16-2002 09:42 PM
300E Performance Exhaust System	FA22	Mercedes-Benz Performance Paddock	1	09-29-2001 12:30 AM
1990 300E performance upgrades?	flipSyde	Mercedes-Benz Performance Paddock	8	10-24-1999 09:30 AM