Hi all,

I'm new here but from Mbworld and have been reading some awesome post here.
I have a 1997 E320 with the m104 engine approx 98000 miles.
I want to add the same Rotrex c30-94 supercharger that Blown 104 has done.
I cant seem to get a hold of him.
Does anyone know what pully size I should order the supercharger with?
I'm looking to get the following;

310-350 whp
7-8psi can I get away without the intercooler, or should I intercool? Whats hp difference?
Rotrex c30-94 supercharger or c38-61, which is better for the engine?
Oil cooler
AEM F/IC piggy back
AEM Uego digital A/F guage
AEM digital boost guage
Vortech bypass valve
Stock internals
Tune from SpeekTek in Long Island
Daily Driver
Does this sound reasonable for what I want to achieve? Forgive me if I missed any previous post.

Thanks,
Rock

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I asked the same thing it would be better and cheaper to go with nitrous.Anytime you Supercharge or turbo charge you need a machine shop skills to make custom parts for you.To be safe as connecting rods are weak in the m104,I was going to run 6 psi.Because a centrifugal charger is easier to mount,I would have no boost till 5000 rpm,so nothing at take off.

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1999 w140, quit voting to old, and to old to fight, a god damned veteran

Yes, i read your posts earlier.
Fabricating a template for the brackets and locating a machine shop to cut the brackets from metal is no problem.(wish I could get my hands on Blownm104's bracket template)
I still wish to pursue the project, I know the costs of the parts including the tuning and connecting the Aem piggy back.

Whipple, I see your experience in supercharging. Please review and reply to my first post.

Thanks,
Rock

Your power levels are doable. The engine if tuned properly can handle 400 crank hp safely. Once you pass that then you are getting close to piston tolerance. It will take it for a little while. The engines are cheap to buy and replace so go at your own risk. If you want to go much higher then pistons are a must. Any detonation at those power levels will compromise a piston in short order. I can get you custom pistons and rods from my profiles at any time you wish. You should definitely intercool. I do not know much about the rotrex superchargers but they should have a flow chart that you could match up to your boost and engine displacement in cfm. THe piggy back has been done on a turbo car of the same year. Look for that thread. You could get the turbodiesel intercooler or similar size for easy of hooking up. If your headgasket is not very fresh replace that. Also the transmission will not last very long in stock form depending on driving. You should upgrade the pressure vavles and have the transmission redone with more clutches and tighter clearances.
Most importanly have fun and be safe.

Whipple, can you look at the attached link for the flow charts for the C30-94
charger (scroll down) and translate for me in terms fo my engine? I dont know how to read it. Can you get any approx. hp figures from it and where in the rpm range I will start making power?. Also do you know how to calculate the pully size for the charger?

http://www.power-enterprise.co.jp/rotrex/pdf_rotrex/C30.pdf

Thanks,
Rock

The c30-94 looks like it is in the range you want. At 80k rpm which is 80% of peak and then go 80% of max rpm at 10,500 so a peak rpm without math of a little over 8,000 pulley rpm. So your crank pulley is 6 inches in diameter and your peak engine rpm is a little over 6,000 rpm so you would want a 1.4:1 ratio pulley. So you would want a 4.3 inch pulley for around 8500 rpm. Your boost will be linear to engine rpm. So your peak boost will be at max rpm. Half of that at 3,--- rpm. I did not do any of the proper calculations for this but this should be in the ballpark. I might start with a slightly smaller pulley unless you can get some confirmation on this.

Whipple, I just got off the phone with OliverJr at Jackson Racing before you made your post, they are a rotrex distributor. he recommended a 95mm pulley for my application. I gave him 6 in dia for the crank pulley and told him 6400 rev limit.
I really admire your knowledge and thank you for you help. This is why I joined this forum, great people, great minds.
Thanks,
Rock

interesting......I would have thought 6psi was bugger all for these engines? I thought the M104 shared same conrods as the M103? If so, they are far far from weak

I know I am turbocharging & not SC & sorry if I'm hyjacking the thread a little but statements like this strike a cord, especially on this part of the forum. I know I'll be running 1 bar boost once engine has been allowed a few K on say 0.5 bar as it has been sitting for nearly 2 years.......& I know I'll be running a stand alone with injection. Stock CIS-E will definitely need capable hands @ the tune as Ed has attested to so many times.

When I looked at the rods in the original M103 engine that had forged pistons in, the stock rods looked quite strong!

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um.....why have men got nipples

I tend to agree the rods are tough in these old 6 cylinder engines. I once had a customer come in (edit: DRIVE in) with a SEVERE knock in a 300SEL. Disassembly revealed that the #1 exhaust valve broke and took the piston clean off the pin. That left the rod (with pin) to slap back and forth in the bore and had beaten a 1 inch groove in either side of the bore. I certainly wouldn't call that the weak point of the engine.

FWIW, I run 9psi non-intercooled (turbo) on a high mileage (266k) 103 longblock. I fully expect to eventually lose a piston, but I don't lose any sleep over the rods.

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90 300TE 4-M
Turbo 103, T3/T04E 50 trim
T04B cover .60 AR
Stage 3 turbine .63 AR
A2W I/C, 40 LB/HR
MS2E, 60-2 Direct Coil Control
3" Exh, AEM W/B O2
Underdrive Alt. and P/S Pulleys,
Vented Rear Discs, .034 Booster.
3.07 diffs 1st Gear Start

90 300CE 104.980
Milled & ported head, 10.3:1 compression
197° intake cam w/20° advancer
Tuned CIS ECU
4° ignition advance
PCS TCM2000, built 722.6
600W networked suction fan
Sportline sway bars
V8 rear subframe, Quaife ATB 3.06 diff

Good to know

I learned the limatations of the m104 on this forum, I learned if you crave boost., To rebuild engine using forged rod Honda or Ford pistons,Sd350 crank.

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1999 w140, quit voting to old, and to old to fight, a god damned veteran

It depends on what your power goal is, in my opinion for ~350 - 400 hp the stock internals are just fine , some even say that with a good tune the internals can cope with 500+hp .

P.S. I was runing ~15psi on the m103 and had no problem with the rods, I'm currently running ~8.7 psi on my m104 with no problem at all. The only rods that broke were the 2.5-16v and that was because the wastegate jammed in an 1/4mile run so boost was as high as the turbo could build (wastegate was set to ~19psi ) ...

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190E 3.0-24v (M104 980) turbo @ 0.8 bar
1/4 mile: 2.483 / 13.540 / 175.17 km/h (street tires)

I do not know where the rods are weak came from. I do not know what the limits are. I have seen m104 engines hydro lock and not bend rods. They are forged and the same in m102 and m103 and m104. I made it to 500hp on a stock engine before it broke. But the pistons broke not the rods. I have stock rods now that have been polished and peened but do not have any problems. I had them spec'd out when I had my pistons done so that when I do find the limits I can order them.

well Hell then I can squirt 150 shot.Wish I had a lathe and a milling machine.

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1999 w140, quit voting to old, and to old to fight, a god damned veteran

That's the impression I was under. I remember discussing this a while back but cannot remember which forum? As far as pistons are concerned, the tune has to be right

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um.....why have men got nipples