And that's why kids dies everyday on the street. They want to go faster, and don't care about driving.

I completely disagree that street driving is "linear" and driving skill is not important. That kind of narrow focus is what causes crashes.

Most people I know that decide to get some high level driving instruction quickly change their minds about squid-racing in traffic. Instead, they learn to drive their car fast in the right conditions and exploit the potential of whatever they are driving.

This idea that poor driving skills is acceptable because most city roads are straight is a poor attitude toward road safety. Performance driving skills are about a lot more than track times. It's about controlling your car and using your eyes to steer.

I don't suggest anyone forget making their car faster. I say that the first modification is to the driver, not the car.

__________________
John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

I'm not saying that driver education is not important, merely saying that making statements that money spent on performance modifications being not important not be valid. You are misinterpreting my thoughts to imply CARELESS and RECKLESS driving without proper driving abilities.

What I'm trying to say is that a slow car is a slow car. Just because one wants to improve its performance doesn't AUTOMATICALLY qualify him/her for a driving lesson. At the end of the lesson, their car is STILL SLOW. We're assuming these are responsible drivers. You're implying that I'm stereotyping kids, in other words, those that modify their cars, without driving instruction, are by far unintelligible enough to responsibly know how to execute the power increase in their cars. Not true. Bottom line, why do V8 MB owners buy V8 MBs? Surely the 6 cylinder counterparts have plenty of POTENTIAL performance limits. And further, surely the vast majority of these drivers are NOT professionally-trained drivers. Rather, they want to mash the pedal on an open interstate and feel the power. And it doesn't take a professional road course driver to appreciate that. A smart driver yes, but Richard Petty, no. You are referring to learning how to harness the capabilities that many people ALREADY have in their current cars. I propose that most people don't want the extra performance in hp and speed to take their cars to an extreme. Blasting past a 300E with a 500E doesn't mean that the owner of the 500E is driving his car to its limits.....rather, he obviously surpassed a 300E with ITS limits, one that which he would not otherwise be content with.

SO, just because someone wants more speed and hp, doesn't mean their going to drive their cars to an extreme, drive irresponsibly, or for all you know, have ALREADY been professionally-trained in a road course.

Not to mention, I'd be willing to bet, that the customer who initially wanted more hp and torque, etc., but is talked into focusing his/her energies and monies into a road course school, will come out STILL wanting that extra power and NOT be content with his or her current ride. You know how it is....speed is addictive.

My then stock 1989 560SEC with its 5.6L M117 V8 had plenty of capability in it. Then why did I upgrade it to an M119 with 330hp? The FEEL of the car had changed tremendously, regardless of speed. One doesn't need to go to a road course to appreciate the difference my 32-valve SEC has over the 238hp stocker. Even driving like a grandpa, one can appreciate its much smoother delivery of power, etc. Therefore, am I AUTOMATICALLY a candidate for a performance driving school (which would cost me more than I spent on my motor actually)?

Satish

As I was the one switching the subject from increasing HP to performance driving, I must say I find it a bit odd to see someone buying a 300E with the intent of being a drag race queen. ( 0 to 60mph) If this is the case, you have the wrong tool for the job.
I would strongly suggest you find a good used Mustang 5.0L, spend half the money on a few basic engine modifications (these cars are real cheap to modify) and you'll be first to the next stop light. 0 to 60 in 5.5sec. is easily achieved with a Mustang. For some, this might be the thrill of a lifetime, but for others, with different vues on driving, driving alone on a nice stretch of curvy/twisting backroad at 8/10 or 9/10 is much more satisfying.
Owning a performance car and driving to it's potential is so much more than feeling the accelerating power of a car in a ''linear'' dash. I do not imply that looking for more power is wrong per se.
But trying to achieve this with a 300E is like if someone wanted to make a Lotus Elan a relaxed/comfortable highway cruiser. Again, wrong tool for the job.
I would add that performance driving schools can certainly help a dragster driver in making him a better/safer driver on the road.
Good luck with your mods.
JackD

Why? So when someone comes to rear end the Mustang, it's plastic bumpers, lightweight 3100 lbs. smash up its occupants, or is it because we should simply not buy a 300E because of its intelligent engineering and design, or is it that we ignore the 300Es excellent ergonomics and longevity in design? or is it that we love the Mustang's crappy fit and finish? There's several reasons why muscleheads hotrod MBs. They love the design philosophy that goes with the marque.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with hot rodding an MB. At the end of the day.....it's still an MB....just a faster one.

I believe an early 300E checks in at 3195 pounds, and a 190E 2.3 hits the scale at around 2900 pounds.

And don't new MBs have "plastic" bumpers?

A 'Stang is no Benz, but it's no Volkswagen Bus deathtrap in a head-on collision, either.

-Sam

No, the new MBs have plastic bumper COVERS, NOT bumpers.

IS the Mustang as crash worthy as a 300E?

Depends. Early '64.5 Stangs are probably pretty horrid, with non-collapsible steering column, etc, etc, while a new model with dual air pillows and crumple zones is probably quite good when compared relatively to all cars recently crash tested on the market. Ford products tend to do quite well in crash tests. Not to say they are quite as decent as MB, but they are by no means "deathtraps".

Besides, modding a 560SEL with a V8 from an SL or 500E is "hella" expensive and complex. That's one nice thing about V-8 powered domestics (at least pushrod designs). If you want to go fast in a straight line, a Benz is not the best solution by any means. For throttle stomping acceleration, give me an LS1 Camaro with the Getrag 6-speed, Borla exhaust, and CAGS skip-shift bypass.

If one is wanting more than that, a Benz or Bimmer might be appropriate. But for straight-line speed......

-Sam

I hear ya Sam. It's much easier to mod a Camaro SS or Corvette over these German tanks. Although Volkswagens and BMWs are quite modifiable for more economical pricing.


Satish

Thanks for everyones replys...

Alright, i think some ppl misunderstood, i don't wanna have a trafiic light cruiser...Is there anything wrong with just having more power???

I have been looking into driving schools, but there all really expensive and i don't have that kind of money.

Also i don't like how many ppl blasts teenagers for there "reckless" driving. I have yet to get into an accident even so much as scratch all 3 of the cars my family owns. Now i know that might not be too impresive for i'v only been driving for around 18months, but you come to my school and ask anyone if they have crashed there car or scratched it, some might say No but then go check out there car...

Thank You Stummala, you seem to be pretty much the only one that understands. I can't give up my benz for a Mustang, Mustangs are sooo ugly...Plus now that im driving a Mercedes i don't think i'll ever be able to go back to any other car (maybe a porshe)...And since im hooked to this car i should make to best out of it, ei. faster, more fun...

Thanks again for all your responces