Euro 126 LSD diffs - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Roncallo · #1 05-31-2012, 09:21 PM

The last two years of the Euro 126 came with 2.65 ratio and ASR. Does anyone know if those diffs also have LSD or did ASR replace that feature.

JayRash · #2 06-01-2012, 03:06 AM

It replaced it

400Eric · #3 06-01-2012, 04:25 AM

Yeah, GSXR and I were talking about this topic just a few days ago and he concurs, ASR replaced LSD. Not an acceptable trade-off IMO.
Regards, Eric

Dearlove · #4 06-01-2012, 07:19 AM

still better than non-lsd....

400Eric · #5 06-01-2012, 07:54 AM

Yeah, I suppose you could say having a car is better than walking, walking in shoes is better than walking in bare feet, walking on two bare feet is better than walking on one bare foot...........

Regards, Eric

Roncallo · #6 06-02-2012, 09:01 AM

LSD is much better than ASR if its on a 560SL with absolutely no way of controlling the ASR.

I will need to find an 89 or earlier.

MAG58 · #7 06-02-2012, 04:46 PM

You could also put in the larger 215 diff from the newer AMG's/SRT8's and get the factory torque-sensing LSD with more clutches and progressively increased pre-load with increased torque.

Roncallo · #8 06-02-2012, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAG58

You could also put in the larger 215 diff from the newer AMG's/SRT8's and get the factory torque-sensing LSD with more clutches and progressively increased pre-load with increased torque.

Interesting. Would this be a bolt in fit for a 1996 SL600. Does the torque sensing LSD require any external controls. Are the axle shaft flanges the same with same?

Any pictures.

MAG58 · #9 06-02-2012, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roncallo

Interesting. Would this be a bolt in fit for a 1996 SL600. Does the torque sensing LSD require any external controls. Are the axle shaft flanges the same with same?

Any pictures.

I know they changed to a once piece half shaft that engages the diff directly (no flange), but I'm unaware of the spline count on the half-shafts or the diff, so I'm unaware if custom shafts would be required (just respline the C63's for the R107 outers) or you could just use the inner CV with the R107 half shafts.

The LSD requires no external control. It works like most of the Japanese style LSD's (and BMW) where it has a pair of ramps on either side of the spiders that engage the spider carrier and upon applied torque, it forces the plates into the clutches, engaging the clutches and increasing the lockup force. In my opinion it's a much better design to the old MB diffs where it's essentially just clutches packed into a carrier.

And pic:

The AMG's use the 215 diff and the charger (perhaps early challenger) SRT8's used this diff so you have a variety of backplates to fit.

whipplem104 · #10 06-02-2012, 10:35 PM

Your problem with the 215mm diff is going to be gear ratios. I do not know of any 2.65 gears. They are mostly 2.8- Also the factory lsd is fairly uncommon and insanely expensive. Just drop a quaife unit in. They are cheap and work great. The last time I checked on pricing they are about 950.00-1050.00 depending on current pricing. I do not know if any of the lsd units fit any of the lower gear sets. I doubt it. The splined shafts are larger on the 215. So you would need new inners. They did make a bolt on flange for this in early units. They are very close to the same size as the early diffs. I have a srt8 215mm 3.06 on my garage floor for when the time is right. I am going to make a new rear cover for it thought to bolt into my subframe. And new axles.
I realize that was a bit of a ramble but bottom line is I do not know of any 2.65 lsd units. New mercedes units are better by far but very expensive. Might look into a different tcu for better gear options or a reprogram if someone can do that on the older units. If you can get up to the next carrier then pick you diff for what ever fits easiest.

400Eric · #11 06-03-2012, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whipplem104

Just drop a quaife unit in. They are cheap and work great. The last time I checked on pricing they are about 950.00-1050.00 depending on current pricing.

One thousand dollars is "cheap"? For that amount of money one can buy a decent 91-95 turbo Volvo 940 that came from the factory with a LSD standard! I'm talking the whole entire car! Besides, other sources inform me that Quaifes are considerably more expensive than that.

Recently, GSXR shared a bunch of info with me on this topic through some PMs on the *********, I'm fairly confident that he wouldn't mind me sharing with you all.

Quote:

Yes you can get them for 2.47 up to 3.06 gearing (in 210mm size) but then you'll have to replace the clutch pack, i.e. rebuild the LSD. The used units will always be worn out. Always. The cost of the rebuild parts have skyrocketed, it's not worth messing with them anymore. The 2.65-3.06 LSD is only $850 brand new and it would cost that much to buy a used one and rebuild it - not worth it.

Only certain years/models had them. And when ASR came out, LSD became a moot point as ASR was essentially electronic LSD (although I know you don't agree). The last LSD's were used in the mid 1990's and then they just about vanished until the newer AMG models started offering them as part of the performance packages in the mid/late 2000's, but again those will not fit our early diffs - totally different design.

Per my spreadsheet, page 4, the 2.24 uses it's own LSD, and the 2.47 uses another LSD, then the 2.65/2.82/3.06 all share the same. http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/other/differentials.pdf

The Quaife is superior in that it will never wear out and it's virtually indestructible. However you can't use it with 2.24/2.47 gears, and the cost is $500-$600 more than the factory 2.65/2.82/3.06 diff. And, the Quaife weighs a lot more. Rough weights are 10 lbs stock, 15 lbs factory LSD, 20 lbs Quaife. For straight line racing only, the factory LSD has a rotational weight advantage. For road racing, the factory LSD is a joke and Quaife is the only way to go.

The 2.24 LSD looks like it might be around $1100 USD, btw... cheaper than the Quaife...

For more info on this stuff go to his site that he linked.
Regards, Eric

whipplem104 · #12 06-03-2012, 10:17 AM

I am a Quaife dealer. The qdf5v is 1412.00. It is fairly expensive compared to the other units. Of the top of my head I thought the cut of was at 2.7- gears. But it looks like 2.65. It fits the older 210 differentials from the w107 cars up to the w129-w140 case. Also used in the w124 w210 etc. At around 2000 Mercedes switched carriers to a wider unit. This uses the qdf7v. Still a 210mm carrier. They are roughly the same price. The qdf9v in the 215mm case is 1000.00.
Honestly at the additional price for the Quaife I would still buy it over and over instead of the factory 210mm lsd that was in the old cars. It lasts about a day or two if you drive it hard and has pretty low lockup. Then you have to buy another or rebuild it. The Quaife unit has a lifetime warranty. Has no clutches to wear out, is seamless in it operation and has torque bias to what you need to keep both wheels pushing hard. Absolutely the best upgrade I have ever made. I recommend it to anyone making more than 50hp.
As far as cost goes. I know it is expensive. But we are in a limited market. Especially in the older units. It is all volume sales. A couple of years ago the qdf9v was down about 200.00 from where it is now due to srt8 cars using the same diff. If we get volume up on the the qdf5v then costs go down. Right now I order them one at a time from the UK. If I remember right 10 or more starts making significant savings. Like 15%.

Roncallo · #13 06-03-2012, 10:53 PM

Thanks for the replies

Last I checked Quailfe did not make a diff for my 1996 SL600 rear. I also have available a 2001 SL500 rear which does not have the side flanges. I haven't checked if Qualife makes anything for that, but that diff will give me other problems that I could probably work out. I believe the only Qualife option is to get a Euro 2.65 from a 1986 to 1989 560SEL.

Use of a 2.82 rear might be feasible and desirable, It may just require a TCU from a 2.82 car, but that would be a guess since I have no idea what else might get pissed off. So the AMG diff option may be a possibility but it is a guess at this point.

Roncallo · #14 06-03-2012, 11:07 PM

Does anyone know if the rear cover from a 129/140 210 1.4L diff will bolt on to the AMG 215 diff?

Roncallo · #15 06-03-2012, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 400Eric

One thousand dollars is "cheap"? For that amount of money one can buy a decent 91-95 turbo Volvo 940 that came from the factory with a LSD standard! I'm talking the whole entire car! Besides, other sources inform me that Quaifes are considerably more expensive than that.

Recently, GSXR shared a bunch of info with me on this topic through some PMs on the *********, I'm fairly confident that he wouldn't mind me sharing with you all.

For more info on this stuff go to his site that he linked.
Regards, Eric

I have downloaded Dave's spread sheet many years ago. Good stuff he has.