So I did see a very low mileage 500E 1993. It was at Hatch and Sons. Silver with only 10k miles! A Florida car. I think it is still there.

They were waiting for quite some time for that one. I was tempted- but being a stereo fanatic I still love the stereo in the E500.

I hope someone in this forum gets it- as you guys really do appreciate these cars.

It seems nowadays people have little idea of what quality really is and would rather have a less stout car- without the carefully welding and so forth - as well as a much worse ride just to take a tenth of a second or so off the 0-60 time.

You know how special these Mercedes really are as soon as you go for a long ride in a friends "new improved" Mercedes. You just can't wait to get back in your car- which was handmade in Porsche's 959 assembly plant.

ERASE:

C'Mon, you'd pass on that car because of the stereo?!?

ALL W124s had crappy stereos-the '94 version was only incrimentally better then its mediocre forbears. If you're a true stereo fanatic, then the entire system's gotta go regardless.

If you really want a low mileage one, sounds like YOUR car

__________________
"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" Sir Sterling Moss

Michael
2014 E63S Estate
2006 SLK55
1995 E500
1986 Porsche 944 turbo

Hatch is holding firm at $47,500 for the Silver/Grey 93. They also have a 6.0 RennTech however that they are more flexible with on price.

Michael- I'm satisfied w/ the stereo in my '94

...speaking to a '93 owner who sat and listened to the stock stereo in my '94 - he commented that the '94 stereo set-up is world's ahead of the '93....

just sharing a comment.

-fad

FAD,

Assuredly an improvement in '94 was realized with the sound of the stereo, but it's definitely not a huge step forward...I've listened to both systems back-to-back, and where I'd give my original 500E system a 3 (scale 1-10), I'd likely only give the '94 and later system a 4 or a 4.5

Just my opinion...just trying to keep everyone's expectations realistic.

__________________
"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" Sir Sterling Moss

Michael
2014 E63S Estate
2006 SLK55
1995 E500
1986 Porsche 944 turbo

Well I think any of the 500E's are better built cars than anything else on the road today. I may be wrong but I believe the E500' s stereo is an Alpine. I put in disc from YES (90125) and a Gold Mobile fidelity disc Tears for Fears (Sounds from the Big Chair) and the fidelity is really amazing for a stock system. The notes fade off correctly instead of being abruptly truncated (chopped off with no fade out) like with the Becker System. I am willing to trade the 7 hp difference for the California emissions, different hood and trunk, badge nomenclature, last model year, 600Sl brakes, lower production numbers, and sound system. I had a 300E 1993 with a Becker system and that was no comparision to the E500.

But- the stock system E500 has limited dynamics - it doesn't crank- but the overall clarity is excellent as is the image specificity and tonal quality.

My ears never ring from that system. I have enough gear to outfit a 1993 500E to the gills with 4x 50 watts, 6 x 100 watts and 3 x 300 watts. 12 channels of amplification in a MC400M and MC440M amp as well as a 4 channel 6 band parametric McIntosh eq, McIntosh remote eq controller, Nakamichi "special shop" (imported from Japan made with better components than the USA TP-1200) TP-1200 head unit with separate dampened suspension preamp, Nakamichi CMC 100 10 disc changer- nakamichi mb7 six disc changer, Nakamichi MB-9 7 disc changer (along with a switching module). Dakota Digital guages that show amp temperature, voltage, amp current draw, 1 phoenix gold 1.2 farad capacitor (for voltage stiffening for the 440M), (3) 1 farad phoenix gold capacitors with custom buss bar for the 100 watt MC400M amp. A Sony TDC-9 Dat recorder for recording CD's in the car, Wadia D/A converter, Top of the line phoenix gold cableing- though I could also go with Nordost. (2) A/D/S/ reference standard 10 inch subwoofers. 4 Vifa midwoofers for the front doors (these were from Apogee speakers- clean delineated bass) and I was thinking of Rainbow separates (the sick 7,000 speakers) for the front end in kick panels.

By the time I would be done installing that gear- I would add over 100lb to my car (and that is conservative- it might be closer to 200lbs). I set up the amps so they can be removed and placed in custom padded golf strap equipped carrying cases with a single plug that makes 65 connections at once 1/0 power ground connections, 12 guage speaker cable, and 48 separate line level cables. That way I could remove the amps to reduce the chance for theft or for lightening the car by 70lbs. for track use.

BUT- I'm not confident I would get better imaging or clarity. I know it would play louder with deeper base and more impact...but so what? In car audio each individual speaker has to be chosen for its particular dispersion characteristics and its off axis response. Crossovers have to be carefully chosen to make sure that the system is time coherrent as the speakers sopunds don't always reach the listeners ears at the same time.

Mark Levinson- a divison of Madrigal which is a wholly owned subsidiary of Harmon International which owns JBL, Infinity, Revel, Harmon Kardon, Mark Levinson, Proceed, Madrigal, and other companies tried to make a super system in the new Lexus sedan and hard top lexus convertible. I audtioned both, and while better than average- the E500's system blows it away in terms of tonal quality and bass response. Part of the reason the E500 sounds so good is that the enclosure (car itself) for all of the 500E's and E500's is so rigid- seeing that it has so many extra welds- the door seals are excellent, and the car has a lot of sound dampening. Lowering the noise floor in your car with acoustic dampening materials just 10 db will make your amplifier sound twice as loud. In order to do that with sheer amplifier power you must increase your amplifier power nearly 10 fold as db is logorithmic function. Kevin Voeks of Revel designed the speaker system for the Lexus- and it is remarkable that the E500 system sounds better than a system designed by Kevin. Those Germans.....

Anyhow- as you can see I spent way too much time on this part of my hobby. But I am not afraid to admit that the E500 system sounds great as it is. BUT 10K miles surely did tempt me to install this super system it in the 1993- cosmetically I do prefer the matching bumpers in silver on the 1994 but that is just personal preference. I probably could eventually exceed the tonal quality of the E500 system- but not without investing 50-100's of hours into tuning and refining the speakers and enclosures. That doesn't bother me- but like anything including my last E500 nothing lasts forever. Mine was supposed to be a garage queen and look what happened.

I am happy to offer advice for people wanting to do small upgrades to their stock systems. If someone wanted the ultimate...I'd have to make it a full time job...and it would something I would do with the help of some of the best installers in the USA. the unfortunate thing about many of the good installers is that many of them have no idea what high end sound can sound like and it is hard to have a great painter make a reproduction of a great Monet if he has never seen one.

Also many installers have damaged their hearing for life.

I would love to hear what has been a great improvement in the 500E and E500's. Something that truly sounds real- but not like a nightclub system. I'll be in San Francisco this weekend "racing"- but a different kind of racing( see turnerdownhill.com the promo video-) that is me doing most of the talking- Notice the mercedes emblem on one of the "racing machines". The steering rack was made by one of Mercedes vendors that makes the single wiper in your 500E's! You might get a kick out of it.

Anyone have any good installed systems around the Boston area?

As to clarity and imaging vs OE stereo: I've put a reasonably serious system into my 500E-PPI Powerclass amps running 400x1 to a single 12" sub, 100x2 to front 3 way MBQuart components, and 75x2 to 2 way MBQ coaxials on the rear parcel shelf. All run by an Alpine CD Head Unit mated to a PXA-H600 digital time alignment and active noise cancelling processor. Sounds great, doesn't kill the ears, and with all its adjustability can really be tailored to fit. And nothing besides the amps in the trunk can be seen by prying eyes; and the amps are inconspicuous since they're the same color as the trunk liner I humbly submit that it has far greater clarity and better imaging than the '94-'95 MBZ systems.

FWIW, all US 500Es/E500s were CA emissions compliant...93s were slightly slower because their fuel mapping is just slightly less aggressive

And the SL600 brakes were front-only, in case anyone was wondering

__________________
"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" Sir Sterling Moss

Michael
2014 E63S Estate
2006 SLK55
1995 E500
1986 Porsche 944 turbo

Well the appraisal process seems to be going forward- just have to keep my fingers crossed.

Micheal, I visit my folks in Sharon Connecticut which is close to Avon (I went to two boarding schools in CT.) pretty frequently- perhaps sometime we could meet for lunch for a system audition? Lime Rock has a vintage Mercedes day in the summer- most of the drivers meet up at the White Hart retaurant in Salisbury afterwards- lunch is on me - hopefully by then I'll have another E500 or 500E. Great if we could get other 500E owners in the North East together on that day.

I'm running my car on Lime Rock April 12th, along with an E55 coming up from MBUSA. Try to make it if you can

What's the scoop on the "Vintage Mercedes" event? Are you referring to the MBUSA-CT/Westchester section event? I doubt I'll go-the idea of 3 "Parade" laps hardly gets my blood up to operating temperature.

BTW, what boarding schools? I went to Choate, so got a big taste of New England Prep.

__________________
"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" Sir Sterling Moss

Michael
2014 E63S Estate
2006 SLK55
1995 E500
1986 Porsche 944 turbo

ERASE - I have the '94 stereo and agree that the sound is clear, but only at moderate volumes. How much can I fiddle with it before I compromise its balance? Can I install a new head unit while maintaining use of the factory amp and speakers? Can I swap out the speakers without destroying the the factory tuned sound stage? Is it possible to, say, add an Alpine head unit, connect it to existing speakers/amp/changer, and add an extra amp and sub box in the trunk? My current understanding of the setup is that the head unit's built in amp powers the dash and rear speakers, while the trunk mounted amp powers the front door woofers. Any information you can provide is much appreciated.

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1994 E500

How much can I fiddle with it before I compromise its balance?

You can't do much. Changing the speakers will alter teh spectral balance and as I said before the off axis response and the dispersion pattern is probably optimized within reason. I'm sure there were better drivers available but those were passed by for ones that were reasonably priced. If you were to match the dispersion and frequency response as well as the efficientcy rating of the drivers while choosing a more resolving driver you would indeed improve the sound. That would require removal and evaluation of the existing drivers.
So forget messing with the existing drivers- leave them as they are- or you could do an AB comparison say with some rainbow separates (their more cost effective line).

As for the head unit I think the head unit is an Alpine. The 7909 was a nice deck by alpine- the one in the E500 is similarly voiced. The TP-1200 by Nakamichi is superior and would require new mounting.

Changing your amplifiers would give more impact control and clarity at higher volumes. The McIntosh amplifiers are my current favorite- You would want to use the Autosound 2000 disc and detect dsitortion when setting the gains so you don't blow your drivers. Push the driver beyond x-max and you'll blow it.


"Can I install a new head unit while maintaining use of the factory amp and speakers?"

You could but you would need special connectors. The E500 head unit works at normal line levels.

"Can I swap out the speakers without destroying the the factory tuned sound stage? " again- probably not without careful tuning- you'll be more likely to make it sound worse- though louder perhaps or have audible "frequency steering" ie you'll be able to notice that the sound is coming from the speakers than fron the soundstage.

"Is it possible to, say, add an Alpine head unit, connect it to existing speakers/amp/changer, and add an extra amp and sub box in the trunk?"

yes but it would have to be compatible with the existing headunits wiring protocols and controller protocols.

My current understanding of the setup is that the head unit's built in amp powers the dash and rear speakers, while the trunk mounted amp powers the front door woofers. Any information you can provide is much appreciated

What were you thinking about using? BTw we should start a new thread. Email me the name of a new thread and I'll subscibe.

MY stereo sounds best with the windows down and my right foot stuffed into the go-pedal :p

__________________
Dean Albrecht
"Lead, follow, or better yet, get out of the way!"E500 owners motto

now yer talking.

Indeed the engine produces music that truly makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck- few stereo's are capable of such a feat.

Erase -

After reading about the insurance fiasco with your E500, I wish you the absolute best in locating a 1994 example that will meet your needs.

It seems a daunting task....low mileage....E500.....Starmark....

I am confident the nice folks on this board will make every effort to assist in locating a perfect match. I'll keep my eyes open for you here in the South.

p.s. As an MB concours judge, if you need me to look at a vehicle for you in the Atlanta area, let me know.