I think many of us owners or potential owners have felt that, down the road, an engine swap with a 500SL or 500S was an option, rather than the $14,000+ to rebuild. However, according to the MB Enthusiast article, the 119 motor was modified in order to fit into the engine space. SAo, it would seem, that the only other engine that will fit would be another 500E engine. Comments?

I thought the space was modified to fit the engine and not vice versa

.....interesting

from what i know. i knew a person who swapped an sl 500 engin into a 500e all he had to change was the fuel injections and so.. but it worked perfect.

I believe the articles that were published on the introduction of the cars stated that the intake manifolds were changed to take advantage of the added compartment height, thus adding a few HP. I would think this topic would be of MUCH greater interest to 400E and E420 owners! Drop in a 500SL engine and start pounding out the wheel wells to fit the wider rims you'll need!

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Mark Stetson
1995 E320 Wagon Moonstone Grey/Parchment 106K mi.
2007 E63 AMG Graphite/designo 75K mi

Hi,
If I remember correctly, in the Mercedes Enthousiast article, it was mentioned that the height if the engine was reduced (for lower center of gravity??). I think that they mentioned that the pistons were therefore shortened.

I will reread the article today and will post a quote tomorrow.

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Fadi
'94 E500
82K miles
http://www.waxemotions.com

MB Enthusiast mentioned in the article that overall around 4500 changes were necessary and thats why the production was given to porsche who is an experienced builder of low volume production cars. Otherwise Mb would have built the car themselves.
As for the engine, it was shortened in height to fit under the hood of the W124. It seems that there is more space in the S and SL class cars under the hood. pistons and con rods were shortened to keep the same bore and stroke sizes, as well as changes to the intake manifolds and engine management (from the S Class) for extra torque.
The engine bay was modified in width to accomodate the engine. As well as the installation of the heavely padded firewall to keep the heat out of the passenger compartment.
According to Mb enthusiast again only few parts of the car are actually common to other W124 cars.

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Fadi
'94 E500
82K miles
http://www.waxemotions.com

So, if the engine was shortened to fit into the engine bay, the logical conclusion would be that no other engine is going to fit. Comments?

Any 92 or later 119 engine will fit. The only duifference is with the exhaust systems. The manifolds may be the same or you may need the 500E pieces. 1991 119 motors had a different fuel management system and may not fit without modification to the firewall.

Lou's correct (isn't this always the case with this guy ); you could pop an SL 119 in, but you'd want to retain your LH injection. Or, the best solution would be an S engine (W140), since it always had the LH injection. FADI, I'm pretty sure you're wrong about it being any shorter, or having specific internal components-I've never once heard this before, and at this point I'm fairly certain I've read just about anything ever written about 500Es...I'm certain it would've come up before (and would've pushed costs thru the roof for certain). And not only was the engine compartment widened, but the front frame rails were splayed and the tunnel over the tranny, driveshaft and diff were all widened-remember, 500Es had specific rear diffs with an extra attachment point (so it didn't snap stuff all the time like AMG Hammers did)

There is indeed a difference in the block, in terms of where you'd attach the motor mounts...all this is clearly addressed in the "Intro To Service" manual. It looks to me that all of the blocks have 3 holes cast in, and in each application you bolt the motor mounts to a different set of holes. I'd be real comfortable popping in an S motor, although I'd also check the cam part numbers as the "Intro to Service" as I recall indicated that the 500E had different cams (but the S and E motors are rated exactly the same for HP and Torque)

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"If God had meant for us to walk, why did he give us feet that fit car pedals?" Sir Sterling Moss

Michael
2014 E63S Estate
2006 SLK55
1995 E500
1986 Porsche 944 turbo

I went back and re-read the Enthusiast article, and it did say that the connecting rods were shortened, to make the motor shorter. I hope this is not true, as the cost of rebuilding this engine is monstrous, and I'm still looking at high-mileage cars in my price range, with the idea of it being a long-term driver, with the option of replacing the engine at some point down the road.

In addition to the different cams, intake manifold, LH injection, and the crankcase holes for the engine mounts, here are more differences on the 400E/500E engine (there's a LOT more), taken from the MB's Intro to Service:

1) Oil pan: upper and lower pan havles modified to accommodate front crossmember. Upper: cast aluminum; Lower: steel. Oil pan gasket and baffles/windage tray modified;

2) Belt Length modified (2465 mm);

3) Modified EGR & Air injection;

4) Oil pump strainer and oil level switch modified due to different oil pan;

5) 1-pole oil pressure sensor on steel oil line identical to non-M119 W124's;

6) Oil dipstick tube modified due to oil pan;

7) Oil cooler line connections are sealed-off with a plug & O-ring since an engine oil-cooler is NOT installed. Oil thermostat was also deleted.

8) Viscous fan clutch housing modified to bring fan 8mm closer to engine;

9) Viscous fan engagement was lowered from 96-C to 82-C;

10) Heater return fitting modified to available space [in W124 chassis] on the right rear of crankcase;

Hope that helps,
:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

If it costs 14k for a plain rebuild and the rest of the car is good, it would probably be worth sending it to Renntech for 25k or so to get a super rebuild......

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John
92 500e, 85k, silver/gray,all stock.
96 Club Wagon,Hypertech chipped( College Hauler)
97 320 SL 50k
1980 BMW e21 323 Baur conv.
1990 300GE 99k

Tom, one thing to keep in mind is that the engine is a real solid piece. I don't recall any thread on this site about 500E engine rebuilds. All the repairs have been with accessories ( and timing chains). In my case, at 111K miles, I'm using maybe a half-quart of oil between oil changes. It sounds and runs like it will keep going for another hundred. If you are scrupulous with your maintenance, I would not factor an engine rebuild into your cost of ownership. Knock on wood!

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Mark Stetson
1995 E320 Wagon Moonstone Grey/Parchment 106K mi.
2007 E63 AMG Graphite/designo 75K mi