M119.960 into a 560SEL - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

BenzEnthusiast · #31 07-19-2016, 08:31 PM

It's been a while, but I'm nearly done. The only things I have left to put on the car are the engine fan, battery tray, and throttle cable. I'm still waiting for the throttle cable to arrive.

I had to have the pressure hose for the power steering pump custom made, but it wasn't too expensive. I also had to order a hose barb to connect the lower radiator hose together as neither a 500SL or 560SEL hose would fit correctly. I ended up using the 500SL hose with the midsection cut out.

The 500SL A/C lines fit perfectly, as long as the 500SL fuel cooler is also used.

Also, for the time being, I have the one ignition coil wire running outside of the harness that it should be in because it is not quite long enough.

I had to mount the CIS-E computer under the passenger floorboard rather than behind the kick panel on right side where the stock 560SEL computer went since it is slightly too large.

I wanted to mount the viscous clutch fan to the front of the water pump like it was on the 560, but the holes on the water pump don't quite line up with the slots on the clutch fan. I'll have to modify the fan clutch or I'll have to put some electric puller fans on the radiator.

What would you do about the engine fan?

BenzEnthusiast · #32 07-21-2016, 03:38 AM

I decided to order the Flex-a-lite 410 fan kit. It's suppose to be a perfect fit. It'll be better than the standard viscous clutch fan anyway.

BenzEnthusiast · #33 08-08-2016, 11:43 AM

So, I finally drove the car last night and it was awesome. The M119 is so much smoother and quieter than the M117. It's remarkable if you consider that both engines use the same fuel injection, but it must be the more advanced ignition system and just an overall more refined engine design. The power delivery is also remarkable. Where the M117 felt a bit limited after 5000 RPM, the M119 pulls to red line hard.

Then there is the transmission, it's basically the same as the transmission that came out except it has an extra solenoid and sensor attached to it. However, this transmission seems to perform much smoother and quicker than the old one, especially at full throttle. The great transmission performance at full throttle is down to the overload protection system. It retards ignition timing during a full load gear change, then advances it again after the gear change is complete. That puts much less load on the transmission and it makes the change smooth and fast.

I'm very impressed with this drivetrain. I was concerned that there wouldn't be a big enough difference between the two engines, but they are worlds apart.

It is not without its faults though. The engine has settled and I need to put some spacers under the motor mounts as there is some interference between the engine and chassis when accelerating hard. Also, my throttle pedal is too heavy feeling. I'm going to change the spring at the pedal to a lighter one. Hopefully that will be enough.

Otherwise, it's great! It doesn't even run hot, even though I'm using the auxiliary fans to keep it cool since my Flex-a-lite fans still haven't shown up. I have a resistor on the temperature sensor to have the fans kick in at 95C and they haven't had to work too hard so far. Also, the check engine light hasn't come on and I checked to see if any faults have been stored and so far, none!

I'll post links to some videos of the car running and what not soon.

duxthe1 · #34 08-08-2016, 01:30 PM

Freakin' Awesome!

BenzEnthusiast · #35 08-08-2016, 11:07 PM

Here's the link to my video of the car running and driving. Let me know what you think.

https://youtu.be/oxBmmrin9cY

BenzEnthusiast · #36 08-14-2016, 06:08 PM

Well, I finally got around to getting the intake hoses put on. I had to lengthen them a bit to get a good tight fit. The intake scoops are both factory W126 parts. The passenger side scoop is the original one for the 560 engine and the driver's side one is for a 300SE(L). The hose on the passenger side is a 560 hose with a bit of length add from an extra intake hose I had from my 420 parts car. The driver's side hose is from a 500SL. I made the extension for that hose from the widest end of that extra hose I had.

I also removed one of the springs in the throttle linkage so that the throttle wouldn't be so heavy. It's better, but still on the heavy side.

BenzEnthusiast · #37 08-28-2016, 12:30 PM

I finally received my fan kit from Flexalite. There were some mistakes made in their warehouse that held up shipping. I would recommend ordering from a vendor instead of through Flexalite directly.

Anyway, the instructions are very easy to follow and the kit seems to be very high quality. Installation didn't take too long and the fans are a perfect fit. You don't have to drill any holes in the radiator either. The stock radiator already has four holes that are perfect for mounting the fans to.

I'm impressed with the performance as well. They gradually speed up so that they don't put a lot of stress on the charging system and the controller has a six second delay when the ignition is turned on so that the fans won't run while you are starting the car. It also allows the fans to run for a short period of time after the car is turned off if the engine is still hot. The car has been running nice and cool and these fans are way quieter the auxiliary fans running at full speed.

BenzEnthusiast · #38 08-28-2016, 12:35 PM

I wanted to put up a few more pictures of the engine bay since now I think I have everything the way I want it.

Although, I still need to get the A/C charged. I have the R12 and a new receiver/drier ready to go, but I just haven't taken it down to the shop. I also need to wrap the wiring harness so that it doesn't stand out so much with all of its bright colors.

Also, next week some time, I'll be installing some new reinforced motor mounts to hopefully cure my engine/chassis interference. It should fix it, since the problem does seem to be caused entirely by a collapsing passenger side motor mount.

BenzEnthusiast · #39 08-31-2016, 11:40 AM

The Flexalite fans are great and work well when they come on at the right time, but I found myself disappointed since my car at constant low speed driving was still getting up to 100°C. However, on the highway and sitting still I did not have this problem. What was happening was that the temperature sensor that pushes into the radiator was cooled down by almost any amount of air moving over it, so when the car exceeded about 10MPH, the fans would kick off. Even if they were set to come on at 80°C and the engine was at 100°C. This was frustrating.

I didn't want to buy the thread in temperature probe from Flexalite because it was only available with NPT threads and I wanted to avoid drilling and tapping, especially since I already had two extra temp. sensor holes in the water neck that were blocked off by bolts.

So, I figured that the Flexalite controller must have been using a thermistor for it's sensor since it had 2 wires and the turn on point was adjustable. Well, I was right. It's a thermistor. The resistance drops as temperature increases. This was perfect! The blue 2 pole Mercedes temp. sensor might work as a replacement sensor then.

So, I grabbed a spare blue 2 pole sensor I had laying around. I screwed it into one of the extra holes in the water neck and made a little test harness to see if it would work.

It worked, but the highest engine temp. I could get the fans to come on at was exactly 80°C. The resistance values between the Flexalite sensor and the Mercedes sensor were too different, but I was not going to give up that easily. I grabbed a 100Ω resistor and put it between one pole of the sensor and the plug. Tested the car and the fans came on right before 90°C. Perfect! I didn't want them coming on any sooner than that because I have noticed that the car runs at about 85°C while cruising on the highway during a hot summer day. So, this setting should prevent overheating and not allow the fans to run at highway speeds.

So, after all of this, I made a permanent harness and used a 150Ω resistor instead to give myself a little bit more adjustment, just in case I need the fans to come on later for some reason.

In the pictures , you can see the plug I used to house the resistor. The plug protects the thin leads of the resistor and it makes it very easy for me to change the resistor, not that I should have to.

duxthe1 · #40 08-31-2016, 07:41 PM

Nice hack. I've recently installed a 600 watt PWM controlled fan in my coupe. It works great but I ran into a problem because I still have the fans out front for the a/c. Well idling in traffic for extended periods with all 3 fans running along with the blower motor and stereo would pull the battery down to dangerous levels. My pending solution is to ****can the fans out front and build my own fan control module with an arduino running the show. Right now my fan speed is based solely off engine temp but I plan to use engine temp, ambient temp, refrigerant temp, and vehicle speed as inputs to determine the appropriate fan speed.

BenzEnthusiast · #41 09-01-2016, 04:13 AM

Thanks Duxthe1.

I have also left the front pusher fans installed. I figured that if both came on, one set of fans would aid the other and that at least one set would turn off pretty quickly.

I haven't had a chance to see it in action though because I haven't had my A/C charged up yet. I'm going to have it flushed and then filled with R12 next week. I guess I'll have to keep an eye on it.

Although, before I did the engine swap, the front fans didn't work too hard to keep the high side pressure down with R12 in the system. Hopefully it won't be an issue.

Also, what is your alternator output on the coupe? And are you running R12 or R134?

duxthe1 · #42 09-01-2016, 01:20 PM

Off the top of my head I want to say 90 amps.

Unsure of the condition of my a/c system I charged it with R152, which is pretty close to 134a.

BenzEnthusiast · #43 09-02-2016, 01:25 AM

Well, I'm hoping that my 100 amp alternator can keep up. Also, your condenser fans might be running more often since your A/C system is charged with R152. I know that on my '92 300D, which is charged with R134, the condenser fans run almost anytime the car is moving slow or is stopped. Anyway, ditching those condenser fans and using your new controller should work great.

I fixed my engine/chassis inferference! I replaced the standard engine mounts with ones reinforced with a Shore A 30 urethane rubber. I can feel a bit more vibration, but the mounts should not collapse and they do not give as much as the standard mounts when under load.

It was very easy to make the mounts. I followed the instructions Mach4 has here:

380SL Diesel Conversion Project

I think that I may still add the engine torque damper back onto the driver's side for additional damping. I'd love to have both, but the passenger side damper does not fit with the M119 engine in place.

BenzEnthusiast · #44 09-19-2016, 01:23 PM

I took the car on a 1,700 mile trip from Northern California to Arizona and back. The car performed almost perfectly.

The R12 air conditioning was awesome. Kept us cool even when it was 102° outside. The engine could go up any grade with ease and we averaged an okay 19 miles to the gallon.

But, the main concern I had was that in the 100° weather with the A/C on, the engine temperature hovered around the 100°C mark. I am currently running water with a corrosion inhibitor and Hy-Per Lube super coolant. I added the super coolant while on the trip, hoping it would help. I think it helped a bit. Also, I'm not sure how old the radiator is and it does have some bent fins. I tried to straighten them out, but it's still pretty beat up, but the condenser and the radiator are clean and free of debris.

In town, the fans are able to keep the engine temp. around 90°C and when the ambient temperature was lower than 90°, the engine temp. was a bit above 90°C on the highway. It only seems to run hot when I was in very hot weather with the A/C on and driving on the highway.

I was told by a Mercedes mechanic in the Phoenix area that the old Mercedes in the AZ heat tend to run around 100°C.

Basically what I'm asking is, is an engine temp. of 100°C too high? Or rather, is 100°C on the highway too high?

chasinthesun · #45 09-19-2016, 04:21 PM

More cores ,bigger radiator ,maybe something custom ,it would go with the type of car you ended up with ,out with the old in with the 119 .Thats funny ,I just spotted a 400e at the yard today too .This kind of makes me think your next project should be an sec version to park next to this one.