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  #1  
Old 01-02-2017, 07:54 PM
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M119 STAND ALONE ON FACTORY INJECTION IN A VINTAGE CAR

Has anyone successfully made a m119 run in another car with the factory 1992 500sel w140 engine management? Yes I know Megasquirt 3 or a haltec ECU unit is probably better but I am curious, plus the factory system comes in the running donor car. I'm just wondering if the security system can be separated from the injection/ignition control module?
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  #2  
Old 01-02-2017, 08:14 PM
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I think the only security system interaction with the engine was a starter interrupt relay.

97 was the first year for a RFID in the key / DAS X box that needed to be tied to the engine computer.
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  #3  
Old 01-02-2017, 08:46 PM
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OK. How about any type of limp mode for various system failures? Like suspension or transmission. Things that would trip a check engine light? As complicated as those cars are I would think that lots of different systems are intertwined and need a good to go signal of some sort for it all to work. I really don't have any experience with the systems in this car though.
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  #4  
Old 01-02-2017, 09:33 PM
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I'm putting megasquirt on my car (5.0 400e with a manual). But I don't think there should be any issues with a non-asr car. (Hopefully your donor was missing it).

But word to the wise. The PCM must see wheel speed signal or else it goes bonkers and won't rev over something like 3k rpm.
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  #5  
Old 01-03-2017, 09:45 AM
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You can do this. '92 should be fairly straight forward. As mentioned wheel speed may need to be added via a abs module but that is fairly crude. You could probably just use a speed generator signal. Or a driveline sensor.
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  #6  
Old 01-03-2017, 10:02 AM
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So if it needs a wheel speed pulse then would changing the rear axle ratio make it not run properly?
Does it read the trans speedo output also?
I also don't know if it is an ASR equipped car. It's not good at all if it is I'm gathering? It's a running closed deck m119 car I can get dirt cheap(like I need more cars right now!) but I haven't seen it myself and it's 1:45 away.
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  #7  
Old 01-03-2017, 11:46 AM
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The ratio of the diff doesn't matter (I swapped from 2.2something to 3.69)

But when I left the sensor hanging and not plugged in, my car would hit a limited way too early. Plugged it in and worked fine.
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  #8  
Old 01-03-2017, 04:17 PM
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Well this sounds more promising than I figured. I need to sell some parts asap!!!
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  #9  
Old 01-03-2017, 04:27 PM
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OK, so how many modules control everything? Is it run like two engines with the separate distributors? Really even more importantly, what all needs power at crank and key on? I'm sure separating the wire harness without messing it up will be a seriously involved ordeal. Anyone have a wiring diagram (and electronics degree!!)? Yikes!
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  #10  
Old 01-03-2017, 08:31 PM
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So I've been poking around and it looks like there are a ton of different control modules, but only the engine control module and ignition module(ezl) seem engine related. So does the wheel speed sensor plug into the ezl?
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  #11  
Old 01-03-2017, 10:05 PM
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Given older ASR is a electric motor / clutch that pushes the throttle shut, I'd be tempted to remove these parts and connect the throttle blade directly to the accelerator linkage. Also make sure the throttle position sensor is working.

Or, there was a dyno mode that disables ASR. One of the tuners in the day offered a super expensive kit to shut ASR completely off, turns out they were triggering dyno mode each time the car was started / bypass sw pressed. There might be a thread on this site outlining how it was done. .
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  #12  
Old 01-03-2017, 10:37 PM
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I'm going to have to play devil's advocate here. Having built and tuned a Megasquirt system, I would not even consider swapping OE electronics. They were designed and built for a certain engine to perform a certain way in a certain chassis. You're swapping the engine into a vintage chassis that was not designed and built to perform like the donor. As you are finding out the OE electronics are designed to interface across several systems, and include poorly executed "features" like the DBW.

Its my opinion that if you want to swap an engine into a vintage chassis, a stand alone system allows the opportunity to optimally tune the engine to the conditions it will be operating under. I'd assume that the desire to go OE is for a "plug and play" install. You'll likely find it not to be so, and after all the effort to make it work you'll be stuck with a collection of compromises. The stand alone may have a steeper learning curve but once you install it, learn it, and tune it, you wouldn't even consider an OE swap, either.
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  #13  
Old 01-04-2017, 12:29 AM
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Pretty much what ive been figureing since i got my first fintail years ago and wanted power. Add a manual trans in and it is probably a bigger train wreck. First plan was 3.5 m116 with a turbo and a 4 speed on ms. I was just wondering if prying the stock injection and ignition away from the rest of the harness without killing it was feasable or not. A guy did something similar with a lexus gs400. The k-jet m110 in my much nicer fintail will be enough of a project after the slc beater im working on. I was thinking it would be nice to be able to pick up a cheap running car and swap the drivetrain into a cool car that runs good. Im just not really a big fan of the newer style cars, just the power potential of the engines. m117 are dogs for the most part, so its either turbo one or a m119 or even m113 possibly. But that gets right back to ms3. im just kinda broke right now. i am still all ears on this idea but if duxthe1 wouldnt even bother im sure id set it on fire after a while of frustration. i cant even stand to mess with my 300te that runs intermittently crappy. I do have an ezl and coil to try now though.

but.....i have lots of parts to sell! 116,000 mile 89 300te anyone? tons of other vintage stuff and a w140 300se to part too! both run good when they run!
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  #14  
Old 01-05-2017, 08:29 PM
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I'm not so sure using stock parts is all bad, I have concerns of the long term reliability of MS and other aftermarket systems.

Careful studying of the shop manual operational description and trouble code chart would lead towards what systems are needed. I doubt 92 used CAN so looking at the wiring diagram should give more clues.

If you have a donor car, unplugging modules you are not going to use would be a good test.
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  #15  
Old 01-05-2017, 08:55 PM
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Swapping in the engine using the factory computers will work as long as you supply the computer with all of info. it wants to see. From my experience, the cars with distributor ignition (up to '95) are not to complicated, but as mentioned before, if the car has ASR, you will have to change the parts on the engine that are ASR related, such as, the cruise control actuator, throttle body, and throttle linkage.

The other thing to consider is that most of the older Mercedes chassis were designed to have an engine with a front sump oil pan. The engines in the W140 chassis all had mid-sump oil pans to my knowledge, but that can always be changed.

It would be easier to use the engine from a R129 500SL. The '90-'92 models are CIS injection though... which is always a bit temperamental. However, the '93-'95 models are LH injection.
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