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#61
08-19-2002, 10:28 PM
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I think I confused you . . .
and you don't confuse easily!
 The picture of the Ritter mod can be seen 14 posts back! I've edited that post and deleted the "pinned screw" picture and replaced it with a stock VFC. I never tried the "pinned" configuration. I really don't know how much noise that would have produced. Used the bailing wire approach to test it out! (two posts back)  Yes, the internal fluid and clutch design causes the clutch to dis-engage at 3xxx rpm. My pinned approach would have negated that. Last edited by JimF; 08-20-2002 at 01:17 AM. 
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#62
08-19-2002, 10:39 PM
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Know what you mean...
I noticed on a couple of the older VFs I have layin' around that the BMS have different colored ID center rings on them .. Wonder if that is Temp code markings...... Think I will do some R/D tommorow....
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#63
08-19-2002, 10:55 PM
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stick them in boiling water. . .
and if they bend, say eureka!
Probably will just sit there! 
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#64
08-19-2002, 11:04 PM
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Prob will bend cuz the ones I have were taken out for leaking fluid..
I'll use oil for heating them up.... gets me readings over 100C
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#65
08-20-2002, 08:56 PM
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More MB runaround. . .
Based on Neil's post from Ritter (under VISCO-FAN CLUTCH above), tried to see if what the document said was true.
The pn 119 200 01 22 is for the complete VFC. Lists for $595. It clearly says "bimetallic spring id number". The only ray of hope is that the present pn is 119 200 00 22. Does the difference mean an improved (lower temp) bms? Need to get my hands on one to test!
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#66
08-21-2002, 06:11 PM
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Some info . . . .
Got a msg from Sachs Europe saying to call Sachs USA in Westlake, Ohio. Did so, got transferred to their "technical support" dept but they had no info on temp cutin, etc. In fact, they don't know anything about the part! Great technical support dept!
Then tried the local MB dealer, for what looks like the improved pn, but they had no stock. Pat (at Exclusive Motors) tried two sources, and one of them has the pn (119 200 01 22). Part put in will call for me to inspect. Will get there tomorrow am with camera. Will report! Last edited by JimF; 08-21-2002 at 06:30 PM.
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#67
08-21-2002, 06:26 PM
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Forget SACHS USA in Ohio, they wanted to be helpful, but it wasn't in any of their reference material.
While you're at it, inspect 113 200 02 22 which supposedly as the 4-bolt pattern. Again, don't know cut-in temp. :-) neil
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#68
08-21-2002, 07:52 PM
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Local MB Dealer . . .
had a 119 200 00 22 part, so took a ride to look at it.
 It's made by Sachs with their part number: 2100 013 031 MB dealer list price $561! The same part that I've modified complete with the same bms (DE-1577). Definitely not a 'tropical' version.
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#69
08-21-2002, 07:59 PM
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Here's a compilation of data from the Sachs website showing what's available. Nobody at the MB part shop knows anything about these parts other than they are special order.
Sachs: 2100 013 031 == Model No: MNT9K-C1 == MB Cross Ref: 119 200 00 22 E-class (W210) E 50 AMG (210.072) (255 kW ; 02/1996 - 08/1997) S-class (W140) 400 SE,SEL/S420 (140.042, 140.043) (210 kW ; 02/1991 - 10/1998) 500 SE,SEL (140.050, 140.051) (240 kW ; 02/1991 - 10/1998) S 420 (140.042) (205 kW ; 01/1993 - 10/1998) S 500 (140.050, 140.051) (235 kW ; 01/1993 - 10/1998) S-class Coupe (C140) SEC/CL 420 (140.063) (205 kW ; 10/1994 - 02/1999) SEC/CL 500 (140.070) (235 kW ; 10/1992 - 02/1999) SL (R129) 500 SL (129.066) (240 kW ; 09/1989 - 08/1992) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sachs: 2100 013 032 == Model No: MNT9K-L == MB Cross Ref: 119 200 01 22 E-class (W124) E 420 (124.034) (205 kW ; 06/1993 - 06/1995) E 500 (124.036) (235 kW ; 06/1993 - 06/1995) Saloon (W124) 400 E 4.2 (124.034) (205 kW ; 10/1992 - 06/1993) 500 E (124.036) (240 kW ; 01/1991 - 06/1993) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sachs: 2100 027 131 == Model No: VL120L == MB Cross Ref: 113 200 02 22, 119 200 02 22 E-class (W210) E 420 (210.072) (205 kW ; 01/1996 - 06/1997) E 430 (210.070) (205 kW ; 06/1997) E 430 4-matic (210.083) (205 kW ; 05/1999) E 55 AMG (210.074) (260 kW ; 08/1997) E-class Estate (S210) E 420 T (210.272) (205 kW ; 06/1996 - 06/1997) E 430 T (210.270) (205 kW ; 06/1997) E 430 T 4-matic (210.283) (205 kW ; 05/1999) E 55 T AMG (210.274) (260 kW ; 08/1997) SL (R129) 500 (129.068) (225 kW ; 05/1998 - 10/2001)
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#70
08-22-2002, 08:06 PM
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Tested a new 'improved' version
of VFC today, Sachs PN 2100 013 032.
It looks exactly like what is described in Neil's post (19 back) in "VISCO-FAN CLUTCH". All of the comments are seen in the new part. Check it out at: http://pages.prodigy.net/jforgione/MB_S500.html under MENU 20. Comments?
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#71
08-22-2002, 11:20 PM
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Here a hot or cool tip. I heard from some old time techs that
the V12 fan clutches are the way to go since the engine runs extremely warm. The temp rating is at lower to kick the fan on. Jim does your specs show this or this old timer tech going off a whim. I installed a new radiator,t-stat,cooling mod harness,in which alot of people email me. I send them your way I no longer make them. How much were you able to get that saches non MB part fan for? My car runs all day long at 95 even with the mod. The fans kick on it goes down to 85 but creeps right back up to 95. Give me your thoughts on this.
__________________
500E Sold 2006 Mini Cooper S Modified,pulley,injectors,suspension 2009 E350 Sport AMG package
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#73
08-23-2002, 01:46 AM
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Well, not sure that
getting an S600 VFC (2100 015 031) would be any different than the S500 (2100 013 031) version.
There is absolutely no difference in the OLD bms (from my car: orig part, 8 yrs old) and the NEW bms from the new "improved" version. The data spelled out in Neil's post under VISCO-FAN CLUTCH when actually tested, results in the same data points. Why? Because the bms in both parts are identical. They only partially deform at 100C possibly starting the clutch to engage. Note that the Sachs PNs are all different which might give the impression that they operate differently. But when the bms's were tested, they act the same (identical). So what makes anybody think that a 2100 015 031 part would operate any differently? The OLD and NEW parts are the same! The rest is a waste of time. IB: the VFC mod works absolutely great. For example, today (about 80 degs w/ medium humidity), the car never went over 88C whether in traffic, or on the freeway. When exiting from the freeway into stop/go traffic, it rose about 2 -3 degsC but, get this, racing the engine, cools the car! When the car is stopped after extended driving, rested for 10 - 15 minutes, then re-started, the temp gauge shows about 93 -95C. While in Neutral, depress the acelerator (1500rpm) and the the temp gauge falls from 95C to 85C in less than 12 secs! No joke! As far as finding this 'holy grail', it doesn't appear to exist for the M119 engine! Instead, we all should buy Stu Ritter a beer for his neat idea! Last edited by JimF; 08-23-2002 at 04:56 PM.
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#75
08-23-2002, 05:15 PM
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the answer is . . . .
BOTH!
Why not? The CH that I use cuts in above 92C (CH-92) and it comes on less frequently now than before. But is still comes on! But as I've discovered, a "puller" fan works better than a "pusher". One of the reasons is that the puller is closer to the actual radiator than the pusher, which cools the a/c radiator nicely but can not cool the coolant radiator as does the puller. So both it is! It is very nice to be able to sit and idle w/ A/C on in hot temps with the temp gauge "stuck" at 88 - 90C! Noise: Yes, there is some increase but as in life, it's an acceptable compromise. BTW, had a smog test today. Check these out: RPM --- HC(ppm) ---- CO(%) ---- CO2(%) ---- O2(%) 650 ------ 2 --------- 0.00 --------- 5 -------- 1.9 2450 ----- 3 --------- 0.00 --------- 8 -------- 1.8 Not bad for the old girl at 102K!
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