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Old 10-19-2002, 12:16 AM
RobertFini's Avatar
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Port Elizabeth, NJ
Posts: 275
Spring Suggestions for Stage Rally 190E

I am in the process of building a suspenion for our '84 190E to allow us to run the car in SCCA high-speed stage rallies. If you aren't familiar with this type of competition, you should try to check it out (SPEED channel broadcasts taped versions of all the events), but I include the follwing brief description to give you an idea of what we plan to do:

The SCCA events in which we plan to run are held on dirt and gravel roads that have been closed to the public, and each car is sent off one at a time at one-minute intervals to run balls-out through the stage. Each car has a driver and a navigator, and the navigator has a book of route instructions from which he barks out directions to the driver who is desparately trying to get through the stage as fast as possible while keeping the car off of its roof (which, as any rally fan knows, is the true steady-state for a rally car). A typical SCCA event will consist of eight to 15 stages and whoever has the lowest cumulative time for all the stages wins.

They say that a good rally suspension will enable the car to be repeatedly dropped from a height of one meter without damaging anything. The rule of thumb is to double the spring rates and the shock rates while maintaining full suspension travel. Finding a decent set of shocks was quite a challenge because the twin-tube Macpherson front suspension on the 190E is not re-valveable and all the "sport" 190E struts available in the US are for a lowered car, which has a shortened piston rod that reduces the amount of available suspension travel. Fortunately, we were able to import some Bilstein shocks from Germany for a W124 that has much stiffer compression and rebound with full-length piston rod travel, which will bolt right into our W201. It wasn't easy and I hope they work.

My next challenge is to locate springs that are much stiffer than stock but not lowered, and that is why I am seeking the collective wisdom of this forum. I can have custom springs made relatively inexpensively but in order to do this I need to know the dimensions of the stock 190E springs, including inner diameter, outer diameter and free length for both front and rear springs. Another (probably less expensive) option is to find a set of springs from another car, maybe a W124, that will have the desired characteristics. Can anyone help?

Thanks in advance and I appreciate your time.

Best Regards,
Rob

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Robert Fini

'12 ML350 BlueTec, 87k
'06 E320CDI, 270k
'05 T1N Sprinter 2500/Pleasure-Way Plateau TS, 69k
'97 C36AMG, 313k (son's)
'94 E320T, 249k
'93 190E Sportline LE, 168k (daughter's)
'84 190E-2.3/5spd (Stage Rally Racer)
'66 230 W110 Sedan (Barn Find, Vintage Racer build in progress)
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  #2  
Old 10-19-2002, 04:06 AM
They call me Darth Speed
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 327
I wish I could join your team!

Bilstien made shocks for us before for our VW Wally Rabbits. You might want to give them a call. It cost us about $300 each but was worth it. They also made a set for my 914 Road racer.

My friend use to race a rally 190e in California. He said something about 500SL springs on the front his car.

GOOD LUCK!
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  #3  
Old 10-19-2002, 07:27 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 490
Rob .... Good to hear your "voice" again. When you get ready to run and would like a "crew" to join you, drop me an email (betty@whro.net). New Jersey is a haul from Virginia Beach so I couldn't "help" around the garage but could posibly meet you at the event. I have a friend that crews for a pro-rally MGB and he describes it as a hoot.
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190SL, 230SL 5-speed, 95 E320 Wagon, 01 E320 Wagon, MGB, Boxster 'S', 190SL "Barn Find"
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Old 10-20-2002, 09:27 PM
RobertFini's Avatar
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Port Elizabeth, NJ
Posts: 275
Thanks for the replies. We did manage to get what we think are appropriate Bilstein struts from Germany, but my search is now for springs. Can anyone give me the physical dimensions of the front and rear springs (inner diameter, outer diameter and free length) for a stock 190E suspension? Thanks in advance.

Best Regards,
Rob
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Robert Fini

'12 ML350 BlueTec, 87k
'06 E320CDI, 270k
'05 T1N Sprinter 2500/Pleasure-Way Plateau TS, 69k
'97 C36AMG, 313k (son's)
'94 E320T, 249k
'93 190E Sportline LE, 168k (daughter's)
'84 190E-2.3/5spd (Stage Rally Racer)
'66 230 W110 Sedan (Barn Find, Vintage Racer build in progress)
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  #5  
Old 10-23-2002, 07:47 PM
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Join Date: May 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Posts: 688
190 spring specs:

Robert,
I'm going through changing the whole suspension on my '84 190E for track use only. I've used old MB struts, cut, new threaded sleeves welded on with dble. adj. Koni competition inserts. I'm using the road race inserts with shorter travel but they make one longer. My 190 has a stroked 302 Ford in it. May not hurt to do like the off-road guys do and add an extra shock!

Spring dimensions:
Front: OD 4.308", ID 3.163" free length 13.5"
Rear: OD 3.868", ID 2.808", free length 11"

These are the dimensions for the 190/2.6 Eibachs I just removed
and the rates according to Eibach were 319lbs front, 359 rear.

I've now got 541 front and 644 rear by using MB springs. To get that rate the coils are cut. For your use I would suggest using
Hypercoils, 2.5"ID and going with a high rate and length for your 'landings'. The springs are not expensive...$50-60 each and have rates up to 1300 lbs. Might not hurt to use a shorter high rate and low rate springs together to make a variable rate. I have the formula for finding spring rates also.

If you'd like prices for custom shocks I work with the Carrera Custom rep. for unusual fitments and applications as he is my neighbor. He has many contacts with most performance shock manufacturers.

Send me an email to discuss this further.

Good rallying...
Tobias MB
190/5.6
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  #6  
Old 10-24-2002, 03:28 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tucker, Ga USA
Posts: 12,153
MB has offered springs for countries with gravel roads.

AS Toby said the rears(springs) are easy as 2.5" racing springs will fit right into the perches.

Hyperco also makes 3"(ID) springs that will go into the front.

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