Benzmac's 190E 2.3 16v TURBO ! - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Jim Villers · #31 11-07-2002, 07:21 PM

Clinton ... The throttle body was what "put me over the edge". I was also struggling with the fuel ratio under boost. I first tried a unit that controlled the current to the EHA (Electrical Hydraulic Actuator) when under boost. The unit didn't keep a rich mixture for more that short periods of time. My solution was to install the Mustang throttle body (free from a friend) and a SDS engine management system, which replaced the CIS-E system.

If the Bekker TB works as it appears that would be the easiest fix. If you need a core to send to Bekker, you are welcome to my original TB if I can find it.

Clinton · #32 11-08-2002, 04:36 PM

Ok great, but do you think this will work......Alain, did Priest's car have this sticking problem also and then you replaced the TB with the enlarged one? Also, what about the plate that lowers to let more air in when the pedal is pressed? Will that need modification? Or will a new plate be provided as well? And one last thing.......how much does this procedure cost? Benzmac, what TB are you using? Is it custom? Please let me know b/c If I can get that set up that you have on your Intake Man. I probably will do it for a price of course.....please please! Jim......If I do need a core part and you let me use yours that would be very noble of you and I would deeply appreciate it.......well, lets keep in touch fellas....thank you for all the help. Later.

Clinton Davis

Alain V. · #33 11-08-2002, 06:56 PM

Clinton, I'm sorry I can't tell you how it was with the stock unit, because Priest had me do the TB install at the same time I did the turbo.

If I remember right, it cost him around 200 bucks I think?
Nothing was done to the air sensor plate. You just remove the top half of the intake to get access to the TB and replace it.

Benzmac · #34 11-09-2002, 09:39 PM

Mine was full custom. There is no price because I would need to have the car to do custom work.

Clinton · #35 11-11-2002, 07:01 PM

Benzmac,

It is me again, well, so you'd have to have the car there in order to do the work? Well, what kind of deal could you get me if I was to drive to GA? I'm willing to do this if it means that my car will be fixed........Please help me out here. Benzmac, I hope to hear good news from you. If you want to email me personally. You can at notnilc20@hotmail.com........Thank you very much. Later.

Clinton Davis

Benzmac · #36 11-11-2002, 07:43 PM

Clinton,

You have mail.

Clinton · #37 11-11-2002, 07:59 PM

Benzmac,

I noticed that on the intake before the turbo compressor you don't have a breather hose connected to your head. Well, I noticed that on head you have a hose that comes out of the head and it "T's" off into the head again and looks like it also goes to the intake manifold. Well, on mine, I'm not sure if I did this right. Here take a look at the picture.....you will notice that on my set up......I connected a hose to this same hose that is coming out of the backside of the head to my airfilter breather at the filter. Could this be part of the problem? B/c i'm not sure if I did this right. Please let me know your thoughts.....thank you.

Clinton

Clinton · #38 11-12-2002, 03:00 PM

I just came up with a new theory as to what might be happening and I want your expert opinion on it please.
OK, first off, let me tell you how the fuel system is set up. It has a “fuel computer” that came with the kit that was supplied by Mosselman. This “fuel computer” works with the vacuum system. It is tapped into or connected to the intake manifold and also taps into the fuel system management at the fuel regulator (I think this is what it is called. It is the little black box that is on the side of the fuel distributor.) Then of course it is connected to a power source. I connected it to the windshield washer fuse. I’m guessing that when the car is making boost, or positive vacuum, then it activates the “fuel computer” and it sends the signal through the fuel regulator. I’m sure you’re more familiar with this stuff than I am. That covers the fuel delivery method.
Now, let me explain to you about my theory. While the car is boosting, could it be possible that the turbo compressor is pulling the air in hard enough to disrupt the vacuum signal to the “fuel computer” by way of the “hose” that I have connected? Look at the picture that is provided. Also, could it have any effect as to why the wastegate is not blowing off? Also note that this “hose” was not provided with the turbo kit.
Anyway, there you have it. I guess you’re probably thinking, “Well, you just have to try it, to see if it works.” But, please think about it and give me your expert opinion on the matter. Thank you very much.

Clinton Davis

Jim Villers · #39 11-12-2002, 04:55 PM

Clinton .. I couldn't understand your picture with the hoses. Your "box" is probably hooked up correctly. The part on the injection system is the EHA (Electro-Hydraulic Actuator) and it will adjust the fuel delivery. There is a positive and a negative side to the EHA and it is possible that you could have those wires backwards. I am not sure what hose you are referring to in your hose discussion. If it is the breather from the valve cover, it could be vented to the air cleaner of left to just vent into the air (even though the environmentalist would scream). If it is a vacuum hose to your waste gate, then it goes from a connection on the engine side of the throttle to the waste gate.

If your are experiencing very high pressure spikes during the transition from boost to non-boost, you need a blow-off valve in addition to the waste gate valve. The waste gate controls when you are in boost, the blow-off valve controls the maximum pressure in the system.

Clinton · #40 11-12-2002, 09:17 PM

Yeah.....sorry for the clairity on the pic....but it was over 100K and I had to shrink the pic and it messed up the wording on the pic. Sorry about that. The large heater hose that is being pointed at in the middle just in front of the motor (valve cover). It runs to breather on the valve cover and connects to the air filter tube. However, I was just thinking b/c this "breather tube" is also connected to the intake manifold, like the fuel computer is, then maybe it is having some effect on the vacuum pressure when under boost. So when the turbo compressor is sucking in air, it is also sucking this breather hose that is connected to the valve cover and the intake manifold correct? Since the fuel computer is also connected to the intake manifold, will this have an effect on the way the fuel is delivered under boost? Hmmm.......let me get back to you on how the wastegate is hooked up b/c I think my wastegate vacuum line is connected to the turbo. I don't think my wastegate is connected to any part on the intake side.....but let me check....it's been about a year since I did the install......however, on Benzmac's car you can see that his wastegate has a vacuum line coming out the top of it and it runs down to connect to the turbo. The other line is the oil sending line that runs to the oil filter housing. thanks everyone and keep your comments coming....thank you.

Clinton Davis

Dan16V · #41 11-15-2002, 09:07 AM

Benzmac,
What are your feelings about the stock headgasket? Do you think it will hold up? Like I said before, I can have a copper gasket custom made, and I'm pretty confident that it will seal off because I can get a special sealant made especially for copper gaskets. But, it's not reusable since it'll be squashed around the o-rings in the block. So, is the stock gasket strong enough with an o-ringed block??
Thanks!

Glen · #42 11-15-2002, 09:38 AM

Clinton:
Sorry to hear you're still having trouble with your turbo setup. From your description, I think you're very close to solving the problem. Here's my interpretaton, the wastegate vacuum connection isn't right...it needs to be connected to the intake manifold to sense boost, this is probably why you are over boosting. Second, the "hose" you are referring to...connecting to the breather on the valve cover and compressor inlet is probably ok, but I don't think it should also be connected to the intake manifold.

Clinton · #43 11-15-2002, 04:56 PM

Hi Glen,

Thank you for your reply. So, I need to have a line to the wastegate to the intake manifold? I think Benzmac, said that I just needed a line from the turbo compressor to the wastegate.......no? Please turbo guru's let me know so I can get things straight.......when I got the kit, the turbo already came connected to the wastegate......but the kit came in a crappy shipping box that had tears in it and everything and I called to the Netherlands (one hellova phone bill there) Mosselman, and they weren't much help either, so who knows.....maybe I've been doing it wrong all this time.....well, something has to be wrong, b/c it has never worked right. I've just been not boosting this whole time.

Well, let me know what you think.....later.

Clinton Davis

Glen · #44 11-15-2002, 06:58 PM

The wastegate just needs to sense boost pressure, whether from the intake manifold or at the compressor. I think this alone will solve your overboost condition. The sticking throttle is another thing...

Benzmac · #45 11-15-2002, 07:30 PM

The reason for having the line straight to the turbo compressor is it is the shortest path in most cases. Also, you will not have any vacuum when at which could pull open the wastegate and cause wear.

Also, the boost loss over the piping, intercooler and throttle could cause boost creep. The best path is straight to the compressor housing which is why almost all turbos have a boss right in the comrpessor housing.