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  #16  
Old 01-21-2003, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by need2speed
Assuming equal drivers! The brain box behind the wheel is something you can't buy along with the new car.

Agree 100%.

I've beaten an SL500, SLK230 Sport and C36 in autocross runs (I was in a bone-stock '91 300CE, BEFORE I upgraded the suspension to sportline specs). Each of these could've easily handed me my butt, given a better driver

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  #17  
Old 01-21-2003, 04:14 PM
Randall Grubbs
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My E500 will outrun my '00 S500 whether from a standing start or on the freeway stretching its legs. My wife and I rat-race occasionally! Now I know the new E500 is lighter than the S, but I think the S only weighs in at something around 4100-4200 lbs. The air suspension in the S is very nice and I would love it in the E. Just crank it down tight when you're getting on it and the S class handles as well as I need, and then let it back out for highway cruising. Actually, I use the softest setting 99% of the time and its still pretty tight.

Randy
'94 E500
'00 S500
'93 928GTS
and (new to me) '94 Toyota LC (for offroading)
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  #18  
Old 01-21-2003, 05:26 PM
Daesun's Avatar
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Location: Palos Verdes, CA
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randall Grubbs
My E500 will outrun my '00 S500 whether from a standing start or on the freeway stretching its legs.
How easily does the E walk the S? Is it close enough that the S will get the jump occasionally, or does the E pull every time?
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  #19  
Old 01-21-2003, 05:44 PM
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I don't think the comparison is a fair one, or even a valid one. There's no point in comparing cars that are more than 1 generation apart, especially when the designs have as much longevity as MB designs tend to have. It would be along the lines of asking which is the better performer the current R230 SL500 or the R107 500SL?

There are too many years of development in between and there really is no point in comparing the W124 500E/E500 to the current similarly named model.

Sure, the '03 E500 is faster, safer, handles better, blah, blah, blah...but with at least 10 years of technological advancement and development in between the two, if the '03 E500 DIDN'T do better than the W124 500E, I'd ask for my money back!

Further to that, the W124 500E was a specialty car with a unique heritage that sets it apart from the rest of the MB model line before or since. In fact, when the E55 was first introduced, the obvious question about the length of time since MB's last E-Class sports sedan (W124 500E/E500) was posed to a Sr. Manager in MB and his remark (be it legit or facetiousness) was that it took them that long to come up with one that could surpass the 500E.

If one DOES wish to continue the comparison, however, one might as well ask which is the "better" car: the R129 SL300-24? or the original 1955 300SL Gullwing? Or perhaps the current BMW M3 vs. the E30 M3. They have the same name as well. As ludicrous as this comparison is, the suggested one between the W211 and the W124 is no saner.

the only reasonable comparison, if we're going based on the model designation, would be between the W211 E500 and the W210 E50. although even THAT is not much of a comparison since the E50 was a europe only AMG. That being said, it's still closer than a W124/W211 contest.
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'94 W124.036 249/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'93 W124.036 199/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs, up in flames...LITERALLY!
'93 W124.036 481/040 leder; euro delivery; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'88 R107.048 441/409 leder; Euro lights
'87 W201.034 199/040 leder; Euro lights; EvoII brakes; 8x16 EvoIs - soon: 500E rear brakes
'70 R113.044 050/526; factory alloys; Euro lights

Last edited by yhliem; 01-21-2003 at 05:54 PM.
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  #20  
Old 01-21-2003, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randall Grubbs
My E500 will outrun my '00 S500 whether from a standing start or on the freeway stretching its legs. My wife and I rat-race occasionally! Now I know the new E500 is lighter than the S, but I think the S only weighs in at something around 4100-4200 lbs. The air suspension in the S is very nice and I would love it in the E. Just crank it down tight when you're getting on it and the S class handles as well as I need, and then let it back out for highway cruising. Actually, I use the softest setting 99% of the time and its still pretty tight.

Randy
'94 E500
'00 S500
'93 928GTS
and (new to me) '94 Toyota LC (for offroading)
Yeah, but your E500 wieghs in at around 3800lbs. considerably less than the S and SL
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'94 W124.036 249/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'93 W124.036 199/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs, up in flames...LITERALLY!
'93 W124.036 481/040 leder; euro delivery; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'88 R107.048 441/409 leder; Euro lights
'87 W201.034 199/040 leder; Euro lights; EvoII brakes; 8x16 EvoIs - soon: 500E rear brakes
'70 R113.044 050/526; factory alloys; Euro lights
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  #21  
Old 01-21-2003, 06:12 PM
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yhliem - With all due respect, I think everyone who has posted to this thread is in wholehearted agreement with your objections. It's obviously an inappropriate comparison. Although it shares its moniker with our cars, the W211 E500 was never intended to replace, improve upon, or placed on the same pedestal as its similarly named W124 sibling. As you stated, a more reasonable comparison would be between the 500E and E50, which in turn should be pitted against the W210 and W211 E55s.

BTW, I think the E30 M3 *should* be compared to its E36 brother, and then both to their E46 successor. They are cars of the same lineage and mission, and a direct comparison shows the evolution of a concept over several generations. However, along the lines of what you were saying, an E30 M3 should not be pitted against an E46 330Ci, as the two cars are so different in purpose and character that the comparison would be fruitless.
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  #22  
Old 01-21-2003, 08:37 PM
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What makes for an appropriate comparison?

This has turned into a very interesting thread. Yhliem suggests that the "unique heritage" of the 500E/E500 renders a comparison to the new E500 inappropriate, while Daesun finds comparison appropriate where the vehicles exhibit similar "lineage and mission." I find both tests for comparison sound, but are they reconcilable? I think they are.

Let's start with the lineage element: Commencing with the modern period of Mercedes high performance sedans, we probably begin with the 6.3, then the 6.9, then (after a long gap) the 500E/E500, then to the E50 and finally the E55. Do these cars also share the same mission? I submit they do. They are all four door Mercedes limited production, performance powerhouses, albeit built using different tools, sometimes in-house, sometimes with the assistance of Porsche, and sometimes with the assistance of AMG (later of course, in-house).

Only our 500E/E500s, though, bear the Porsche connection. This is precisely their unique heritage. Can we properly compare our 500E/E500s to the E55s? While different, they both evolved from the same "mission," and, I think, deserve to be compared. The new E500, on the other hand, meets neither test.
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'90 300TE 4Matic
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  #23  
Old 01-21-2003, 08:45 PM
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I guess I need to jump in here. Which car would you rather own at ten years of age and 100,000 miles? The 124 was the last of the "engineered like no other car" Mercedes. WShether it is a 300E, 400E, 300CE, or 500E, the 124 will outlast, I'm sure, any other Mercedes built since.
The current E, and the last one too, don't do much for me. The interiors seem tacky, and I would have to go to the dealer to have it serviced. I really like having less electronics. In fact, I love it that my driver's side mirror is not powered, since it's not necessary.

The new MBs are designed to please the first owner or lease person. Mercedes is not terribly interested in the 2nd or 3rd buyer, hence the FSS system that tells you not to change your oil for 12 or 13 thousand miles! Of course, it will make no noticible difference for the first 100,000 miles, but will become a probelm for the 2nd owner.

Tom
92 500E
110,000 miles
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  #24  
Old 01-21-2003, 10:51 PM
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The reason I suggested you compare it to the old E430 because that is the one that it is replacing. The only thing the old and new E500 share are a name and an engine displacement.
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  #25  
Old 01-22-2003, 01:09 PM
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I drove the new 500E on a "track" they had set up on the stadium parking lot here in Atlanta last year and was frankly pretty disappointed compared to my car.

The front end felt pretty heavy and the acceleration was not on par with what I'm used to day to day. I let my buddy drive my car home and he concured with my assessment. Now to be fair, I've got a RennTech front sway bar so my front end set up is a little different, but the difference was really significant.

I think a fair comparision will be to the AMG version when it comes out. The new 500 is just too main stream compared to how my 92 was spec'd.
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  #26  
Old 01-22-2003, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by yhliem

Sure, the '03 E500 is faster, safer, handles better, blah, blah, blah...but with at least 10 years of technological advancement and development in between the two, if the '03 E500 DIDN'T do better than the W124 500E, I'd ask for my money back!
Yen-Hsen...what is the scientific talk of blah, blah, blah? Can you please describe your assessment in layman's terms? :p

Great thread...a number of points well made. IMHO we are entering another renaissance period with Mercedes that will produce the W124 E500's rightful heir. I'm thinkin the kompressor E55 AMG may be the one!
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"Lead, follow, or better yet, get out of the way!"E500 owners motto
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  #27  
Old 01-22-2003, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tom woolner
The new MBs are designed to please the first owner or lease person. Mercedes is not terribly interested in the 2nd or 3rd buyer, hence the FSS system that tells you not to change your oil for 12 or 13 thousand miles! Of course, it will make no noticible difference for the first 100,000 miles, but will become a probelm for the 2nd owner.
I'd have to agree with Tom on this one. If you were to pull out an old product line catalogue from around 1986/1987 you'd see that M-B states that their goal is "The best cared for customer in the world." or some such rhetoric.

At that time, they certainly made an effort to live up to that claim; but in recent years, I've been seeing a lot more emphasis placed on sales (note the number of new ads) and a lot less effort placed in taking care of existing customers. Based on the various threads that I've seen, this seems to be a problem with MBUSA in particular, though MB Canada seems to be steering in that direction.
__________________
'94 W124.036 249/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'93 W124.036 199/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs, up in flames...LITERALLY!
'93 W124.036 481/040 leder; euro delivery; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'88 R107.048 441/409 leder; Euro lights
'87 W201.034 199/040 leder; Euro lights; EvoII brakes; 8x16 EvoIs - soon: 500E rear brakes
'70 R113.044 050/526; factory alloys; Euro lights
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  #28  
Old 01-22-2003, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by need2speed
Yen-Hsen...what is the scientific talk of blah, blah, blah? Can you please describe your assessment in layman's terms? :p
Just trying to be technically precise.
__________________
'94 W124.036 249/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'93 W124.036 199/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs, up in flames...LITERALLY!
'93 W124.036 481/040 leder; euro delivery; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'88 R107.048 441/409 leder; Euro lights
'87 W201.034 199/040 leder; Euro lights; EvoII brakes; 8x16 EvoIs - soon: 500E rear brakes
'70 R113.044 050/526; factory alloys; Euro lights
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  #29  
Old 01-22-2003, 04:31 PM
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I recently purchased a 2003 E500. I have not driven the older 500E so I can't make any comparisons. However, my previous car was a E46 328i with the Sport Package, which is known for its handling and steering. I am frankly surprised at how well the new E500 handles. It may not be as good as the 1999 328i but it is very respectable for such a larger car! Of course, the 328i is much sharper and quicker in steering. The acceleration of the E500 is really effortless above 70mph. The Airmatic does wonders for this car
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2003 E500 BlackOpal/Charcoal

2004 Infiniti G35X
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  #30  
Old 01-31-2003, 05:22 PM
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Is the w124 E500 Hand-Built?

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Make it a great day!
Jay E.

E55 '00 (Silver)
....SOLD

E500 '94 (Pearl Black)
...love my E500 so much!

Toyota FX-16 GTS '87 (Very Red)
...stored in my garage

Audi 4000CS Quattro '87 (Alpine White)
...Totalled

Mitsubushi Montero '91 (Blue)
...my daily ride
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