Okay Folks,
Being a somewhat rabid 500E owner, (hello...,my name is Lee,...I um...drive a 500E.) Oh well, so much for my attempt at therapy.

The June 99 issue of European Car magazine has a writeup on the 500E. (with tidbits on the E's in general) They also have some stuff on the new E55, M5, and the other usual stuff. For anyone wanting some more information, or at least an interesting addition to the library, you might want to go pick it up. Mark Herzig comes to mind as an perfect candidate.

Enjoy....Lee

Thanks Lee but my mechanic already turned me on to the article!! He contacted me as soon as it came out and got me a copy! I was actually going to let you know about it but you beat me to the punch!! Great article.

Speaking of the article, I'm interested in doing some of the upgrades that the featured owner did: '94 cosmetics, 1st start performance chip, upgraded brakes.... I have NO idea how to pursue these upgrades. Do you have any tips/suggestions/opinions on these upgrades?

Mark,
Some of the upgrades sure do sound like fun! I wouldn't mess with the 94 cosmetics...they will cost big $$$ and will hurt resale. (especially on something as collectable as a 500E) You certainly can, but call the local dealers and find out which is the best bodyshop...etc. Just save all the old stuff for sale time just in case...

The 1st gear start thing is a valve-body in the transmission as far as I know. About $1,400 from Renntech, AMG, Brabus. I might know of a good shop that could do it a bit cheaper but I'd have to do some specific digging...

Brakes are something to consider when the stock units wear out. They are probably not something ANYONE would complain about or notice at re-sale time. To find the 600SL brakes go to a good parts guy at a dealership or independent. You shouldn't have any clearance problems with the stock wheels... I'm not sure it would be a very big improvement though as the stock brakes are pretty darn good. (slightly modded SL500 binders vs normal SL600 brakes)

As for the performance software....I have been searching all over the place for "the" MB chip-tuner. The various brand name tuners have some stuff but it is very pricey and I'm not sure they are giving you all they can with a chip. (why buy their big buck stuff when you can get big gains from just a chip?) I wouldn't touch Quickchips. Superchips is a possible but their customer feedback is a bit sparse(not to mention they have the theme-song from "The Sting" on their webpage-frontpage...not the image I would want to convey to customers!) Jet-chips does some stuff but I don't know anyone who has had their car tuned by them. Adrian Eckenrod and I have been trying to get Jim Conforti (of bimwad legend) to do something for us but we don't have anything solid yet. I have even talked to some chip-makers from Europe. They have good stuff for our cars but fuel composition is different between continents so they are not of any practical help. I may order a couple "chips", dyno them, run them-timed, emission test them, then return the ones that did not do as well for whatever reason. (but that gets darn expensive!) When I proposed a head-to-head to Superchips they basically said "bring it on", when we did the same with Quickchips they got all defensive and legal. Things that make ya go hmmm.... I think I may wait and try to get Conforti. If we can sway him to do something it will be worth the wait! Once I find something solid, I'll let ya know.

As for wheels and tires: I am switching from the OEM 225/55/16 to 245/50/16. It fits the fenders, fits the stock 16x8 rims well, and has a variety of good tires availabe in that size. If I were to buy an aftermarket wheel/tire setup I would swap to 245/45/17 on either Monoblocks, Evo wheels, or BBS RK's. I've always said that Michelin MXX3's are tough to beat. All high zoot tires are available in the 17" size, most are available in the 16" ers as well. I think I will be putting 245/50/16 MXX3's (as the cost no object option) or Firestone SZ50's in the same size. (as the slightly budgeted option) The Dunlop 8000 is good, but I don't think it will be around long. If I popped one I would likely be SOL. Dunlop 9000 isn't bad, just at $176 a tire there are better cost-gains options. For a competition or track tire Nitto makes an R compound tire in 245/50/16 and I think Kumho makes 265/45/16 but I'm not sure it would fit.

Other mods I think are necessary: Kill ASR. Benzmac and I are working on a solution that will defeat ASR 100% on demand but not cause any nasty side effects. You can buy existing systems for about $1,000 to $1,500 but we are trying to do better than that. If you are happy with ASR that is fine, I have just driven several cars of the same model where one had ASR and the other didn't. The ASR cars are almost always slower. ASR only helps acceleration when A: grip is at an extreme premium (on wet gravel or snow/ice) B: the person at the helm isn't that great a driver, C: when you dont' want to worry about throttle modulation or otherwise paying attention, or D: when you have so much power that you just can't get the tires to hook up for anything. (think race car or something similar) In the case of the W124 V8's it seems Mercedes chose to put inadequate tires with overadequate electronics. Put 225's on a 4.2 or 245's on a 500 and ASR isn't as much of an issue. Otherwise, especially on the 500E, you can end up looking at that damned orange triangle through most of 1st and 2nd gears. Plus I just resent the fact that MB does not believe me capable of piloting my own car myself.

Oh, one last item. Keyless entry is always nice. It is one feature that MB was behind the rest of the industry until very recently. We now have the keyless system ready for most semi-modern models. Email benzmac or myself for more specifics. I do know where you can get a top quality keyless system that works flawlessly!

I think that about covers it. Good talking to you as always...Lee

Lee, just a couple of things regarding the 500E:

Regarding the ASR defeat: I understand that the 500E did not come with a limited-slip differential, stock. European versions, I am told, had a limited slip diff as an option, along with optional ASR. I have been advised that the differential in the US versions was not designed for the excessive wheel spin which could accompany an ASR defeat, and could be ruined. I have been advised (by Beverly Hills Motoring Accessories and Barry Taylor of Richmond Mercedes (in Richmond, CA)) that I should install a limited slip differential along with an ASR defeat switch. What would be your recommendation? Which actually raises one additional question: If the ASR was optional in European versions (i.e., had an integrated ASR defeat) would not the factory ASR defeat switch be available? One last question regarding the ASR defeat: the box containing the computer modules in the engine compartment contains a module which has "ASR" on it. Is this the module which controls the ASR system? If so, what would happen if it were, uh, removed?

Regarding performance chips for the 500E: Performance Motor Group, Inc , an AMG tuner in Canada (www.performances.com), says they have a chip for the 500E tuned by AMG and the chips actually come from Germany. Would you happen to know anything about the chips? If they really are tuned by AMG? I've talked with the folks at PMG, and they seem like good guys, but I am no techno-wiz and don't know all the right questions. (by the way, Beverly Hills Motoring tells me that their chip, as well as their ASR defeat, is done by RennTech)

Regarding 500E brake upgrades: PMG also has a reinforced 500E brake. I am not sure exactly what is included or different for stock or if done by AMG or not (maybe I will call them about this). I also remember seeing somewhere, though, mention of AMG brakes for the 500E (or maybe it was the E55) which were done by AMG and encorporated some particular advanced racing technology and was a much improved braking system. Have you heard of these?

In case you would like to know, I recently purchased a pearl black 500E with a production date of 12/91 with 65K miles. The car is absoultely spic-and-span and, as you have experienced, runs like a monster. I plan on the the following modifications: chip; evo-II 17" wheels and new tires (probably Yokohama of some sort); AMG sway bar; AMG exhaust (cat-back, including muffler); new shocks and springs (according to PMG done by Bilstein under contract to AMG to AMG specs) which lowers car and maintains self-leveling rear (new rear shocks have adjusted valving to prevent "bottoming out." I recently purchased AMG stainless steel door sill plates for a little subtle cosmetic appeal. They come from the factory, fit perfectly, and look subtly beautiful. Eventually, I will do the ASR defeat along with, if necessary, a Torsen-Gleason limited-slip differential and maybe the appropriate brake upgrade. (don't worry, I plan to keep all replaced parts!)

Any comments or insights always welcome.

John

[This message has been edited by revbond (edited 06-02-99).]

John,
Congratulations on your new car! It sounds like a real gem. I think the 500E did have a limited-slip diff stock. Perhaps the diff only sends 25% of the torque to the other wheel instead of a full torque split like a Torsen or something. With the amount of wheelspin possible without ASR on stock tires I could understand where some serious heat could get generated at the diff. I seem to remember reading in some of Benzmac's literature about limited slip diff's in 500E's. 96 and newer cars had true ASR defeat switches, but last I heard, it would not readily retrofit. I will discuss the in depth diff/ASR issues with Benzmac and get back to you. (just to be sure)

As far as "european" chips for the 500E...that gets to be a blurred area. If the chip is designed for a euro-spec car OR a car running on euro-spec fuel then you may have some problems. If the chip was tuned (in Germany or by a german company) for US spec cars running on US spec fuel then you should be okay. "BMHA having their chip/ASR defeat done by Renntech" That is odd...I believe in their literature BHMA states (proudly I guess) that their stuff is done by AMG. If I remember correctly they have an AMG shop near their geographic location as well. I have not talked with PMG about their chips yet. PMG has a pretty good reputation as an AMG distributor though. If we can get Conforti doing MB, then it WILL be worth waiting for. (Jim, if your reading this....PLEASE!)

"What happens if you remove the ASR computer module?"....nothing good. MB went to great lengths to make sure you could not sidestep their electronic police. As complex as the system is it is difficult to say how many things would go wrong but you could expect these: ABS would also die, you would get reduced throttle capacity (75% approx), engine warning lights aplenty, "limp-mode" which as the name implies severely hinders performance and may prevent it being restarted after a time. In general nothing good. Terrorists would be doing well to design a bomb as tamper proof. That is why the ASR defeat is $1500 bucks, your paying for their research.

500E brake upgrades: The 600SL brakes theoretically bolt right on. The "racing-tech" brakes from AMG are usually calipers that are connected to the hubs by "pins". (imagine the rotor's swept surface area being connected to the hub-contacting area by thin metal spokes) Since there is less heat transfer through these smaller structures than a conventional rotor design you should theoretically get better performance. I think brakes of this design are on the E55 out of the box. They would likely fit onto the 500E hub provided you had a 18" wheel. Whether AMG or Brembo you can always buy bigger rotors/calipers, just make sure you want to get bigger wheels/tires to go around them. Stainless steel brake lines are a popular upgrade as well.

Evo II wheels...good choice. I think the Evo tire size is 245/45/17. If I were buying another set of wheels for the 500E I would either get the Evo II's or AMG blocks. I'm going to try and stick with the stock 16x8" but put 245/50/16 size rubber. I'm more of a Michelin man, but whatever suits you... The wider/more aggressive wheels and tires also impacts the diff issue. The stickier stuff you have back there the less spin you will encounter. More rubber, less electronics. I have been happy with the suspension, but let me know how your's works out!

Sounds like your really enjoying the car, hope to hear more from you in the future. Congrats again and I'll get back to you with the ASR/Diff specifics.

Lee

Thanks Lee! Any addition info you could gather on the ASR/diff would be great.

John,

I saw you mention european 500E and Barry Taylor. By any chance, did you get a european version from Barry? He brings those cars over now and I've talked to him about doing that at some point. If you did buy yours through him, please let me know. I would like to find out about the experience. Thanks

Alex

After talking with Benzmac, the 500E's did have limited slip diffs. Burning the snot out of the tires (NHRA style) will be hard on ANY diff, but as to the yes/no answer....they do. I intend to put more attention to developing an ASR solution once PartsShop is up and running smoothly. When I know something, so will the forum.

Lee

Alex:

No. I didn't buy my car from Barry Taylor and its not a european version. It is unlikely that I would ever by a car from Barry because I find it difficult to tell if he is on the up-and-up or what. He also has weird terms. For instance, a couple of years ago, I thought about buying a 2.5-16 (true AMG engine, done in Germany by AMG) from him and he had a rather strange term: he retained some sort of right of first refusal with the next sale of the car and he stayed on title or some such thing. He also tends to be rather pricey, particularly for older AMG stuff (I think he bought the entire remaining stock of AMG North America some number of years ago and has part etc. that are otherwise very difficult to find in States). Don't get me wrong: Barry seems to be incredibly knowledgeable about Benzs (by the way, he says he has someone who is doing computer modifications for the 16v and the 500E) and will spend hours talking to you about electronic arcania. He also had some nice cars (i have not been to his shop in a few years, though). But its hard for me to get the warm fuzzies when I think about buying a car from him.

Also, given what I understand to be the incredible difficulty of registering grey market cars in california, I probably wouldn't buy a euro version of any car (and expect to drive it on public roads) so long as I live in CA.

John

[This message has been edited by revbond (edited 06-18-99).]

Lee:

Thanks for the info. I got the same from the technical person at the Mercedes Benz NA customer assistance (who, buy the way, is generally full of useful info -- provided you can get a hold of him). He couldn't tell me, though, the "level" of limited slip, i.e., 25%, 50%, etc. Maybe I will be able to figure that out once I get technical manuals from Mercedes Benz.

John

PS what is this parts operation to which you allude? how will it work? what types of parts will be available? will there be a complete catalogue on-line? when do you expect it to be operational?

John,
I believe the %of limited slip is 25%-35%. I still think the best solution is better/stickier rear tires. If I hammer the gas off the line I'm on ASR though about 75% of 1st gear with 225/55/16 Michelin Pilot XGT Z4's. I hope to upgrade to 235/50/16 Michelin Pilot MXM's or 245/50/16 Michelin Pilot SX MXX3's soon. I'll let you know how that goes.

The parts operation I allude to is that MercedesShop.com will be selling parts online in less than a week. We will offer a full line of OEM parts (star on part and box), OE quality (without the star on the box but same quality level), rebuilt, used, and aftermarket (non OE quality level). We are trying to have an interface with the quality and user friendliness of the Shop Forum. We will offer parts ID and also instant ordering if you know your part #. It will have a totally electronic interface. If we get your order by 3pm ET it should ship the same day. We will have 5,000 to 10,000 line items online. We will be able to get you just about anything. We will accept Visa, Mastercard, Discover and American Express through a secure socket layer server. We hope to have this service up and running by next week. As soon as it is ready we will let you know.

Thanks for the interest...Lee