how does the C36 compare with the new V8 C43? i been hearing things that the C36 might actually be better. up until 1996, the C36 was using the 500E 4 speed transmission and i know the brakes and handling capabilities for both the C36 and C43 are both great. Then, 1997 came the 5 speed auto. How does the V6 C36 sound? raspy? or nice?

then, how would both cars compare to the legendary 500E?


a used 1995-1997 C36 is in the neighborhood of the 500Es. Is the C36 worth the price?

Hi Walden,
On paper the C43 would have all the advantages. More HP/torque, lighter weight, etc but from the tests one would read in Car&Driver it would seem it doesn't have that much of an advantage. The C43 engine is a slightly tweaked(cams and minor internal mods) version of the new 3-valve/twin-plug engine family. Despite being a V8 it is a small bit lighter than the DOHC 3.6. There has only ever been one C36 engine. That engine being a 3.6 liter AMG built inline six. That engine is created by stroking out the DOHC 2.8 inline six from the C280. Bore increases a very small amount but the displacement bump is over 90% stroke. Usual hot-rodder tricks are used and you end up with a very zippy I-6. I have always liked the sound of I6's in general. The 3.6 I6 makes almost the horsepower and torque that the 4.2 DOHC V8. That peaky nature should be complimented best by the 5-speed auto more than the 4-speed but individual examples seem to vary alot. Factory rating on the C43 puts 0-60 at 5.9 secs which is about as quick as I've seen any C36 rated. However I've seen several C43's tested that were not making the usually conservative MB rating. Perhaps the engine was not broken in. (expect a new engine to pick up a few tenths as it fully breaks in) As far as value goes...if you buy a 95-97 C36 you are buying a car that will have future collector interest. However many of those examples are still somewhat "new".(at least by MB standards) The 500E is older and has had a much greater chunk of its depreciation happen already. Not to mention that when the 500E was new it was an 80K car, the C36 was never more than a 50K car. By some respects you are getting more "car" for your money with the 500E.(in my opinion anyway) There is one thing that can be done to the C36(so I hear) that isn't really possible on a 500E...twin-turbos. Of course, doing that would destroy any collector or resale value but I'd bet that be one helluva rocket. Out of the box stock, I'd still put my cash on a 92 500E. Read the issues of Star magazine where they report the results of the races/acceration runs from the MB Starfest events. 500E's are always either tops or second only to Renntech creations. As the saying goes..."the bull**** stops when the green flag drops!" Just my opinion....Lee

Considering the C36 vs. C43, I heard from
Andreas, who owns this website: http://www.datacomm.ch/~speedfreak/ , that
the automatic 4 speed transmission from the C36 is far more responsive compared to the
5-speed from the C43.
(Wish it was my own experience... ('86 16v))

I just bought a 1998 C43 and I could not be happier!

I drove a local C36 and was really sort of disappointed with the performance. I thought it would be much snappier, but it just did not have the heart that I thought it would have! It was a 1996, so it had the 4 spd trans (vs. the 5 spd in my 98 C43). I drove the C43 and I think it is a much better package!

The recend article in Car and Driver claims the C43 has a harsh ride. I would agree that the car does have a stiff ride, but it really is nothing that is too harsh. Also, I have heard talk about a hesitation when starting off. I really do not know what people are talking about here?? The car is really a bullet! The car runs true and is very potent. I am very pleased.

I considered buying a 1997-1998 740 or 540. The 7 was too big (I am 32 and single....I felt like I was 45 and married with 2-3 kids driving that big 7, and the 5 was about the same amount of money, but I just was not crazy about the package. The 5 is very nice, but the C43 is much more exclusive and I fell a better package - at least for me) Mercedes Benz build quality cannot be beat, by anyone.

Feel free to contact me at abalto@hypmedia.com with comments or questions.

Andrew,
Congratulations on your car. Having driven one of those I know how fun they are. My experience with the C43 was that the car hit quite hard off the line (bout the same as a 500E) while the top end was pretty good (but not quite M119 wicked) as well. In a 500E vs C43 stoplight...all was equal (maybe even a slight edge to the C43) till the 500E's variable valve timing kicked in. Then the C43 fell further and further back. The ride never seemed harsh unless you hit a really bad hole. The hesitation off the line the popular press talks about is likely the transmission and its associated systems. Being electronically controlled it "learns" driver behavior. Give it a regiment of lead-footed-ness and it should really squirt off the line. My favorite aspect of the car was its smaller size, ergonomic "sporty" accents (steering wheel grips/seats/etc), and its exhaust note. The car handled quite well but also had a great handling feel that really contributes to the intangible "fun to drive" factor. While perhaps not quite as brutal as a 500E, it certainly is loads of fun in ways the 500E can only dream about. (read: 5-speed auto tranny) Glad you are enjoying your choice, IMO you really have a helluva ride.

Lee

PS Why don't you join? We'd love to welcome you to the MercedesShop group of performance car (500E, C36, C43, E55, 190_16v, 6.9, etc) enthusiasts!

Since i first did this posting i did some research of my own from asking C43 and C36 owners both here in USA and Europe. OK...it seems that the new C43, though it is great, is no better than the C36. whether its the 1995/96 version or the 1997 version. i met a guy who has both these cars and a BMW M3. (by the way, the M3 automatic version doesn't even come close to the C36 or C43. In the C&D magazine they always compare the 5 speed manual M3. I also had the opportunity to meet a guy who works at mercedes and is very into MB performance cars. he told me that the C43 came out to save MB some money since using the same engine as in the ML 430, CLK 430, E430 and S430 would cut costs. Then they could do a strong marketing push saying that for the same price as a C36, you can now get a V8 C43. Its all about economies of scale. AMG only had to slightly modify the 4.3 engine instead of totally rebuilding it by hand like they did with the 3.6 liter C36. Also, the 3.6L engine is more of a racing engine with 4 valves per cylinder instead of 3.

I spoke to robert, a C36 nut and he has a website totally dedicated to the C36.
his C36 website: http://www.isomedia.com/homes/robertg/Home.html

Robert told me that his 1995 C36 was doing a little over 6 sec. 0-60 but when he broke the car in after a 5-7000 miles, he was well into the 5.5-5.7 sec. range. The C36 seems to be tuned specifically as a sports car from the start while the 4.3 liter engine did not have that direct intent.

I am not sure if the 1997 5 spd transmission is any better. i drove both for the C36. Remember, the 4 speed is the same transmission as the legendary 500E.

so after all my research, reading info. from this site, and test driving the C36 (both 4 spd and 5 spd) and the C43, i decided that the C36 is better value in the used car market. I love the 500E/E500 but only the 1994 version. i drove that but didnt feel it was really THAT much faster. I am sure on the track it is but on the road, it is close. the look of the 500E is a little more mature for my tastes and i would also need to spend a few thousand more for larger wheels/tires to make it look more sport. also, many C36s out there still have bumper/bumper MB warranties left. E500s certainly do not.

so, i picked up a 1995 C36, mint condition, 37,000 miles, fully loaded C1 package, phone, heated seats, etc, 2.5 years left on MB warranty, full service records, all service done by mercedes, and even has a lojack all for $30,000. it is a RARE polar white color. AMG only made 5 C36s polar white. there are way too many black ones out there. silver is nice too, but i feel a clean white car stands out more.

the car is great, i get many looks from M3 owners and i am having a fantastic time cruising around. i am comtemplating selling the rims/tires to get the 5 spoke 17" AMG CLK style rims to give my C36 a different look. not sure yet..but i made a for-sale posting in the classifieds here.

ok..one last comment, the C43 is a great car and i would get it only if it were a bit cheaper in the price. the thing i really like about it is that the V8 sure does sound better than the I6. i was at the MB dealer last week and he was willing to sell me a brand new 1999 C43 for $51,000. i think it was loaded. but at the end of the day, the best engine is still the 500e engine but it would never fit in these C-class cars. if i am not mistaken the C36/43 handle better than the 500Es though...

take care...and i hope to meet up with some other C36/43, 500E owners soon...

Lee....Thanks for your kind comments on my purchase. I really am pretty happy with the car. I know it is not the 500E, but frankly I wanted something that was a little newer (read under warranty) and fresher styling. Like Whan mentioned, I do believe the 500E does have a more mature styling to it!

Whan, congrats on your purchase! I think that was a smart buy! I really did want to buy a C36, but just sprung for the 43 instead. I purchased my car (1998 C43, Silver/Black, 12,000 miles, every option including C1 package, Xenon headlights, CD changer, phone, rain sensor wipers) and paid $42,000. I could have gone up to Manhiem and bought one for a little less, but after wasting an entire day, paying auction fees, transfer, giving a friend a few hundred $$ for running through his license, paying for lunch, etc... - It really would have been the same $$! I just wanted it so I bought it. I have a Lamborghini Jalpa that I drive on weekends and for fun. Pic here--> http://www.hypmedia.com/560sl/jalpa.jpg

I did find a 1996 C36 local (Baltimore) from a guy that wanted to sell because of a divorce (supposedly!)...it was same color as my C43, had 18,000 miles, and he wanted $37,500.00. I offered him $35,000.00 and a next day settlement (I inspect) and he acted like I was insulting him! The guy was talking about buying a C43 then he said he had to sell because of the divorce, back and forth, etc...

The guy was kind of flaky and arrogant, so I really did not want to buy it from him anyway.

I do think that the C36 are great cars...and I would agree that they probably are a little more of a pedigree with AMG going through that 6 cyl. a little bit more than the 4.3 V8.

The one funny thing about my car is that it needs tires at 15,000 miles?? Is that normal? I know the Michelin Pilots are soft, but I did not think they were that soft?? Any recommendations on tires? I was a tireracks site and the Pilots are about $1100.00 for the set! I also looked at the Dunlop 9000 and the Yokohama AVS (they are a REAL bargin!) I figure the tires are only going to be on the car 18-24 months anyway, so the Yoks might be the way to go! I have AVS's on my Lambo and they are just fine!

Repeat after me.......

E500/500E is the way to go....PERIOD.....

The guy who should have bought a E500...
Andy Kuo
'92 400SE
70,890 KM

Abalto - Go for the Yokohama AVS if performance is a high priority. If you want performance with a nice ride and low noise the Yokohama AVS Sport delivers. If you don't mind a slight tire whine and a stiff ride, the Yokohama A520 is a wonderful performance tire. Both the Sport and 520 are great in the wet too.

The Dunlop 9000 has a softer ride compares to the Yokohama (all). It is as quiet as the Sport. The performance on dry is only average at best and very good in the wet (not as good as the Sport). Also Dunlop tires are not as round as Yokohama or Michelin which can cause vibration that can only be cured with new tires. By the way, the Dunlop 8000 is wonderful. Good luck.

Hello Abalto...

Congrats!! You got a great deal on your '98 C43! where did you buy from? i know it wasnt a pre-owned MB starmark car right? MB dealers are still asking $48,000 for 1998 cars. if i found a deal like that...i might have gone for it....who knows. the guy you mentioned with the '96 C36 was asking way too much money compared to the market. i still know people who are trying to sell '97 C36s for $37-40K. that is way too high if you can get a '98 C43 for $42K. The best deal i found for a '98 C43 was $45K and it was a lease buy out from this guy last month. the main characteristic i really like about the C43 is the V8 rumble that the C36 doesnt have but i must admit the C36 sounds about the best a I-6 can ever get. i think the 3.6L AMG engine sounds better than the Porsche 3.6L. it has a nice deep sound for an I-6. The good thing about my purchase is that i only had to pay $1200 in tax since i told the motor vehicle that i paid $20,000 for it. I love the Bose sound system. i am glad that mercedes finally put a good system in the car.

About the Tires, i think you should go for the Yoks' AVS sport or the Sumitomo HTZ II. both are great value and half the price of Bridestone expedias (which i have) and the Mich Mxx (which you have). i figure since these tires are going to wear out at 25,000 miles, spending almost $1100 on tires is crazy. i guess you drive hard if your tires are out already.

well, best of luck...where do you live? maybe we can get together and check out our AMGs.

whan

Congrats on your purchase. I'll have to argue a bit about the price of a used C36 compared to a new C43. Keep in mind that they are both different vehicles. In my mind, the C36 is much more a "TRUE" AMG car. The 3.6 was born fron a 2.8 and everything in that 2.8 was modified down to the oil pan.
The C43 on the other hand basically has a computer upgrade and hotter cams.
Personally, i don't want people to get mad, this is only my opinion!!!!!!! The C43 is not an AMG car.It's not hard for different companies to shove bigger engines into a lower model.
Remeber, don;t flame me for my opinions...THIS IS MY OPINION. hehe

Happy driving!

P.S. maybe i'm biased casue i own a C36? hehe

I have to agree with Rocky. Of course, I might also be biased by owning a C36! How fast have any of the C36/C43 crowd driven their C36/C43? If you have exceeded 140mph, then you might understand what Lee is refering to about the 500E pulling away. Power is power. To the quarter mile a C36/C43 is about the same as the 500E. And in everyday driving that's what counts.
Concerning the tires, I have a set of Sumitomo HTZ and they are fine for the price

Well, maybe 0-60 is what counts on the street...however, if you ever come up on a 500E on the highway, watch out because then you're truly in its element. I've yet to see any car keep up in the 60-100mph test, but you never know...someone may have a 500E with Nitrous out there!!

------------------
Best regards, Michael
'92 500E
'88 300TE

I reached 245km/h in my C36 twice. Dunno what that is in Miles/h.

I had a big grin on my face

So far...off the line i have smoked some Automatic M3 sedans/coupes. My polar white C36 is also rare. only 5 made so i get some head turns and some people even question is my car is a real C36 or a body kit modified. i just tell them to check under my hood.

i am happy with the 4 speed transmission. its the same as the 500e transmission. i wouldnt pay $6-7K more for a 1997 C36 just for the 5 speed and a cooler looking steering wheel. the off the line tests show its not significantly better than the 4 speed. also, the real power of the C36 is from 50 mph to 120+.

OK...lets get real about one thing..the 500E was an $80,000+ car. it should be WAY better than the C36 but for everyday driving fun and speed i dont think it is.

I agree that i feel the 3.6L is more of a true AMG engine. the 4.3L is a spiced up MB engine. Not that the 4.3 isnt good...it is great but i guess i didnt feel like paying $14-18K more for the C43 over the C36.

bottom line, either way....C36, C43, 500E....all great cars...just a matter of preference. We are all part of the same MB bad-ass family! BMW killers!!!!

ONE THING IS FOR SURE.....TOO TOO MANY M3'S OUT THERE...AND SO FEW C36 AND EVEN FEWER C43 AND 500E THAT IT MAKE THESE CARS SPECIAL...

take care all


whan...

PS- i live in NY/NJ metro area...anyone nearby want to meet up and talk about C36s/C43s???