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  #16  
Old 12-03-2004, 07:52 AM
w201-16
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Norway
Posts: 3

This is how we do it in Noway
2x 2xØ46mm throtle bodies with Electromotive tecIII
The car ia an 2,5-16 with EFI, reieger and the fenders?(sorry,bad english)
are hand made with help form W124 fenders.
More picture here.
http://www.mb190klubb.com/member_cars/tor_anton/tor_anton.html

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  #17  
Old 12-09-2004, 09:18 PM
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Posts: 3,473
What was your horsepower increase by converting your CIS system to the EFI?
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Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.
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  #18  
Old 12-10-2004, 10:46 AM
w201-16
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Norway
Posts: 3
About the same, but the engine are more stable.
It's not running different day to day.
I can now built step by step. Change piston, cam chaft, turbo and so on.
Or i can go in the program an tune it, like chip in a another car.
The sound are real heavy as long i have 4 Ø36mm hole that suck air
No turbo s**t here.
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www.mb190klubb.com
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  #19  
Old 12-15-2004, 12:21 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Charlotte, NCizzle
Posts: 238
im working on some now for my honda project. Take the stock manifold, chop it, and use some Suzuki GSXR, Yamaha R, or Honda CBR throttle bodies.
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  #20  
Old 09-19-2006, 07:31 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 26
I have made my own throttles also, but not for an MB, and they weren't pretty! I can't help but wonder why you wanted to make four throttles? They have no function with the turbo and plenum which is done with runners and a throttle body on a plenum? Also, if you please what diameter is the throttle shaft, and what kind of fastenings are used to mount the throttle blades? For the person discussing throttle bodies; yes the 3.8L Gm unit is an execellent choice; complete with t.p.s. my last one cost 5dollars at the junkies. The head/runner flange can be made out of mild steel plate even in your garage with a hand drill. the basic technique is white paint on the head and press on the strap to pick up a pair of bolt locations; followed by two studs to match your strap with the two holes; more paint, more holes; more paint; big holes, etc. Exhaust tubing for the runners, 6" truck exhaust tube for the plenum; and bob's your uncle. Steel is a better material here than aluminum beause it conducts heat about 3.5 times more poorly.
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  #21  
Old 09-23-2006, 06:08 AM
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for Mike 300CE

Since you ask for information; here it is. No there is no reason to have throttles,(a word that means; valve.), such as butterfly valves in the runners between the head and the Plenum. If they did have throttles in them; they would then be (throttle bodies); otherwise they are intake runners. I understand what you're saying about tubular runners entering the side of a plenum; and short tubes underneath the runners close to the head for the injectors. If you like to work in metal and can braze or mig weld; either one will be fine, or have a friend who can, you can certainly do this. If the mouth of your runner that mates to the head is a tiny bit smaller than the head/gasket that will be fine. Larger than the gasket/head hole is not good. One of the advantages of supercharging is that many details that are important for non-supercharged, or NA,. engines, are not significant for you. You don't need bell mouths on your runners where they enter the plenum. Exhaust tubing is available in 45degree pre-bends which are usually pretty usuable. What's wrong with the manifold that comes with the engine? Unless it's a carburettor manifold it will work real well. I reccommend the 6" truck exhaust tube for the plenum because round shapes are desirable and it"s about the right size. If you squash it a little so it's oval it will be better. Then the runners will be going in one of the long sides. Your re-cycled throttle body just bolts on to an end header that you weld/braze to your squashed tube. The six inch tube plenum should extend several inches beyond the front and rear runner entries; if possible; if not don't worry. This is kind of the easy part of a turbo-charging project; I'm sure other people can advise you on a specific type #turbo to use; which I know nothing about. The most important single thing you can do is to inject a 50%methanol, 50%water mixture into the intake of the turbocharger; this is extremely beneficial. It can be very cheap and simple' an underhood container with a small tube line running to the turbo intake; from the bottom of the container; and a small flex lilne running to the intake manifold, with a one way valve in it is all that's necessary; The boost pressure in the manifold will blow fluid at the impellor in proportion to the boost pressure; at cruise conditions there won"t be any positive pressure in the manifold. The container will have to be able to withstand your boost pressure. Early model VWBug windshield washer fluid containers are ideal; I don't knkow if they're any left; they have a tire valve in top of the, (heavy)plastic vessel sothe owner could pressurize the thing at the gas station with the tire hose; and then later on, get a couple of squirts out of it when driving; I"m not making this up. well have a Fosters for me. cheers Jack.
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  #22  
Old 09-23-2006, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john affleck View Post
The most important single thing you can do is to inject a 50%methanol, 50%water mixture into the intake of the turbocharger; this is extremely beneficial.
Although water injection is a good way to lower charge air temp; it is not advisable to inject water into your turbo. At 60,000 RPM water mist is like sand to your compressor wheel. Injecting downstream from the turbo is way safer.
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01 ML55 AMG
92 500E (a few mods)
87 300E (lots of mods)
00 Chevy 3500HD Diesel Box Truck
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PREVIOUSLY OWNED:83 300SD, 87 420SEL, 88 420SEL, 90 420SEL, 86 560SEL, 86 190E 2.3-16V AMG, 94 E320

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  #23  
Old 09-23-2006, 08:35 PM
ForcedInduction
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Don't inject preturbo. It will just dull the compressor blades.
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  #24  
Old 09-24-2006, 04:04 AM
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Centrifulgal compressors are all sisters. they are rated by tip speed rather than RPM.. See Entire history of 8th U.S. Air Force; great britain, for abundant affirmation that this is practical. Also I have approval from Vortec Engineeering to inject into the eye of the compressor wheel., Also please see HP books #49, written by one of the developers of the modern supercharger; fellow of the SAE; etc. etc.; also Oldsmobile division of General Motors which marketed (rocket fluid), toi put in the underhood container of your turbo-charged oldsmobile F85. Sorry, but your simply wrong.
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  #25  
Old 09-24-2006, 03:50 PM
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Location: Lake Geneva, WI.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john affleck View Post
Centrifulgal compressors are all sisters. they are rated by tip speed rather than RPM.. See Entire history of 8th U.S. Air Force; great britain, for abundant affirmation that this is practical. Also I have approval from Vortec Engineeering to inject into the eye of the compressor wheel., Also please see HP books #49, written by one of the developers of the modern supercharger; fellow of the SAE; etc. etc.; also Oldsmobile division of General Motors which marketed (rocket fluid), toi put in the underhood container of your turbo-charged oldsmobile F85. Sorry, but your simply wrong.

The way I see it, turbos are built to ingest and compress air, not water.
Let's say that pre turbo injection has absolutely no adverse effects on the compressor wheel or bearings.... What would be the advantage of going pre turbo versus post turbo?? The objective of water injection is to lower combustion chamber temps. The compressor really doesn't need any cooling since it's sucking in ambient air. Also, I would imagine the centrifugal force would not help in keeping the water atomized.

I'm not saying pre turbo injection will ultimately end in destruction but why take a chance especially if there's no gain..
__________________
Current Stable:
01 ML55 AMG
92 500E (a few mods)
87 300E (lots of mods)
00 Chevy 3500HD Diesel Box Truck
68 18' Donzi Marine
06 GT i-Drive7 1.0 Mountain Bike (with GPS!)

PREVIOUSLY OWNED:83 300SD, 87 420SEL, 88 420SEL, 90 420SEL, 86 560SEL, 86 190E 2.3-16V AMG, 94 E320

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  #26  
Old 09-25-2006, 12:40 AM
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It's an engineering question. If all engineering questions could be answered by common sense; there would be no body of knowledge called engineering; but many, many questions can't be answered by common sense; the technical issues involved have to be examined carefully; and the first thing to do is check the body of properly documented experience that may be available. There is no "chance", involved; so this cannot be an item in a cost/benefit analysis. Millions of user hours have already occurred. Injection takes place into the eye of the compressor wheel, (patented by Fessenden in 1929), so that the water/methanol mix; which is much more desirable than water alone; will instantly become fine particle fog. And because this fluid will actually increase the operating capacity of the compressor; and because in this way the very simple method outlined above will be used; eg. the manifold pressure will automatically inject cooling fluid;(the standardized name for this technology is "internal cooling"), and increase delivery in step with manifold pressure,(boost). The only moving part is a one way valve. Particularly for a street car which won't spend a lot of time in boost; this is the least expensive and most reliable system; it's very practical; a one quart container should last quite a while. HP BOOKS#49, by Hugh Macinnes contains many very interesting facts.
Cheers, Jack
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  #27  
Old 09-25-2006, 01:06 AM
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Posts: 26
I just thought you might like to hear about a heavily injected compressor; the street application only gets a light spray. I've run a centrifugal compressor that absorbs 110hp through a 75mm cog belt with 1.2 Gallons per minute of methanol spraying at its wheel nut; that's basically a solid 1/4inch stream. This was done after consulting the factory who readily agreed that it was an ok plan. After 154 runs at the drag strip theres no change in the wheel shape; No-one had any reason to think there would be.
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  #28  
Old 09-25-2006, 01:13 AM
ForcedInduction
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john affleck View Post
a one quart container should last quite a while.
I use about two gallons of 50/50 mix per month in my diesel.
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  #29  
Old 11-21-2006, 07:09 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 143
Dan.
That looks downright awesome!!
Really killer!!

Good luck with your continued project!
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  #30  
Old 11-21-2006, 07:10 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 143
John btw.
These days we inject alcohol/water a little more intricate at the track.
Trust me on that.


Last edited by 300EVIL; 11-21-2006 at 07:48 PM.
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