ASR not enough, ESP ?

[Alexis]

Hi,
Let me tell you what happened.
Yesterday It was raining and I was pulling hard to get on the motorway in a uphill. It hadn't rained over here for weeks and obviously we were having what the floridians call the florida ice, a nice and slippery mixture of oil, gas, etc.
Gess what, the back of the E500 just went mad, trying to find it's way between the right and the left of the lane, if not to say the other lanes. I precise that my back tyres are almost new.
I have to admit I have been a bit slow to react, not that I am a drink and drive French (no laught in the back please), but just that I am getting a bit too confident with that car that feels so at ease everywhere.
The result was an immediate and strong kick in of the ASR that just brought the car back in lane. Franckly, that was a good and strong experience but I am not sure I would have been able to react so quickly and so accurately.
So my question is the following : does anyone know if it is possible to adapt an ESP on our E500 ? What changes would it implicate ? Is it even possible ?
Yes guys (by the way, where are the girls on this forum ?), everyone doesn't leave in an ever sunshine state...

[super SEC]

A professional driving education class may be the best money spent along with a little more discretion with the accelerator on wet roads.

Good luck!

[Mark Stetson]

Southern California freeways are like that when it rains; it rains so seldom here that when it begins, the roads are VERY slippery. Just as you describe. My feeling is if you want ESP, buy a newer car. Too many electronics mods would be required to the older ones to be worth the trouble for me.

[David Hendy]

1. Spend $250 on Curcio's ASR defeat switch

2. Spend a day on a skid pad/Skip Barber etc.

3. Turn off ASR

4. Wait for rain shower

5. Opposite lock baby!!

[-fad]

Sounds like the ASR did its function perfectly...

-fad

[Alexis]

Thank you David and super SEC for your kind advices.
But franckly, would you play that game on a slippery and crowded (9.30am) motorway while pulling hard from 70mph ?
The aim of my topic was about technic and not about my driving capacity ; I certainly drive over 100 mph more often than most of the people on this forum, I have been few times on a track, and I have driven almost everything over 300 hp (ferrari, aston, porsche, lambo, maserati, bmw, etc).
But I think that the discussion about ASR is the same that about an automatic sport car, especially in europe where, England excepted, less than 10% of all the cars are automatic.
When I talk to people of the E500 and that I say that it is auto, most of them look at me with horror...until I get them for a drive.
There, as one of the most sceptic one told me, they realize that it can be "violent" in terms of acceleration and fun.
Instead of considering as a non sense the desire of an ESP, I would ask if the willing to defeat ASR for opposite lock and wheel burnings is not a bit anachronic, especially considering the fact that it is more and more common on top of the range sport cars.
On the opposite of Porsches, M BMWs and Ferraris, the E500 was not developped for such games but, a bit like Jaguars of the 60's, for effortless cruising at high speed or high velocity on nice and winding road where the power allows quick, effortless and secure overtakes. All of what makes life so easier and so appreciable.
Keep that in mind and you will realize that ESP would not be that stupid.

[super SEC]

I don't think that ESP is a stupid idea but it is unecessary if you are a skilled driver. I currently own a 400+ hp Porsche, a 400+ hp Mercedes, and a 350 hp Mercedes. I do not have any problems with driving nor do I need ESP in any of the cars. Yep, it's nice in the 350 hp E55 or even when the wife drives the 280 hp E430 but if I'm going to do some spirited driving then I'll shut the ESP off. The ESP can be a detriment if you are going too hard around a sharp corner at a higher speed. If it activates, you can be thrown tail first into a wall.

When you have a high hp car, I wouldn't consider the stock E500 a very high horsepower car, you have got to be careful when the roads are wet as well as in just about any car. I have to be very careful in wet or dry conditions in my supercharged Mercedes due to traction problems. Hell, I like the feeling of those 275 rear tires losing traction because the car has got loads of torque and power. Yep, it can be scarry too as well as very dangerous if you are not careful.

I need ESP like I need someone over my shoulder 24 hours a day telling me what to do. If you need ESP, by all means add it to your car. With enough time and money just about anything is possible.

[Mark Stetson]

So who's going to step up and give Alexis a technical breakdown rather than a philosophical diatribe? How many input sensors are required for ESP? I remember counting 12 or 13 just for the ASR, back when I was having my troubles with that...

[David Hendy]

The only time I every feel I am losing control in my car is when ASR does kick in, especially in the wet.

ASR is great if you just let the car do nothing, just let the car do its thing. However should you turn into a slight skid (invariably before ASR can intercede) and then you completely lose throttle control, I guaranty that your car is going to snap back the other way, and buddy you better be quick or you will not catch it.

I don't know how many sensors are needed, (they just add unnecessary weight!) I just know my internal computer is faster than the one in the car.

[Michael]

I agree with Hendy. In real slick circumstances, the abrupt loss of throttle tends to preclude any effort to smooth out, or modulate, any sidesteps...when the throttle cuts, the rears get a quick hold and snap you the other way. Hope you're ready! I believe this phenomenon led me to looping my car at an autocross a few years back - without the ability to modulate the throttle, you can just be along for the ride sometimes.

If you do eliminate ASR, beware of torque and stay alert!