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  #1  
Old 10-30-2003, 10:27 AM
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Question Struts- HD's. Do they really "raise" a car??

I am stumped on the Bilstein HD dilemma. I am speaking of W124 chassis. Many of you have posted that HD's will raise the vehicle. I have spoken with 2 different rep's from Bilstein, one an application expert, the other an installation expert, whatever those mean, and both have concurred that HD's should NOT raise a car. They would never design a strut to do that. They feel it is an installation error, and have never heard of such occurences. They also stated Comforts are 1-2% stiffer than stock, just because they are new, and HD's are 10% stiffer then stock. What do you all feel?

Also, theoretically these monotube gas struts should never wear out, so replacement of OE front struts(Sachs/Boge, MB) is very infrequent, compared to rears. I have 124 320 3230 on the front, and they seem fine with 145k, the rears I feel have lost damping, and affect overall vehicles handling. Would replacement of just the rears be a mistake? HD/Comfort?

I am now starting to think springs may be best bang for buck in handling category.

Thanks

Q

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  #2  
Old 10-30-2003, 11:29 AM
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Just as a matter of engineering no shock that was designed for use on a particular vehicle will raise the vehicle above mfg design specs, because to do so would change steering geometry. Gas filled shocks will raise the ride height of the car to proper ride height when new due to the pressure of the nitrogen fully extending the shock. Gas filled shocks lose gas over time and sag accordingly. You could check this on your own car if you change the rear shocks.Measure bumper height before and after the change. HD shocks are just valved internally to provide stiffer handling and ride characteristics.

Peter
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  #3  
Old 10-30-2003, 06:47 PM
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Peter is right. Old shocks may lower the car slightly, but new shocks won't "raise" the ride height - only return it to where it should be, if there's any change at all. Don't measure until you've driven on the new shocks for a week or so, they'll "break in" over a few hundred miles (or less). Springs affect 95% of ride height, shocks the other 5%, if even that much. I wouldn't worry about it at all.

As to life span, well, 75-100kmi is about it for front AND rear. If you want a firmer ride, try HD's. Better yet, get KONI's, which have a lifetime warranty and are adjustable too. For ultimate handling, springs will make a much bigger difference, but with Sportline (or similar) springs, you'll NEED to get HD's or KONI's to damp the stiffer springs - BT, DT. To reduce body roll, get bigger sway bars.

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  #4  
Old 10-31-2003, 10:06 AM
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Thanks Pete/Dave,
HD's are going on the car in the morning. I will post my results, and feelings after install.

FQ
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  #5  
Old 10-31-2003, 10:44 AM
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Q,

I just reread your post and sse that you have 145k on the clock. If you want to be anal about it, you can replace all the rubber bushings in the suspension. A lot of deterioration in handling quality of an older car with over 1ook is attributed to the rubber bushings getting hard and sloppy.

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  #6  
Old 11-02-2003, 07:48 AM
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I have HD's in my car...

when you first install them, it will raise the car but after they settle. It will go back to the regular height.
To be fair, I also installed H&R springs at the same time. The car was "high" even with the lowering springs but, after a couple of days...it was just right.
Good luck!
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  #7  
Old 11-02-2003, 11:57 AM
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Thanks everyone for your posts, always helpful in this forum.

I completed intstallation of all 4 corners with Bilstein HD's on Saturday. Had never done this before, but felt confident. It turned out to be very self explanatory, the rears by myself took 1.5 hours total. The fronts, 2 hours, most of that on the first one, the second was 30 minutes. As i pulled each one out there was a noticeable difference, especially rears, with there rebound. The rears had been long gone for a while.

First impressions: WOW!!. Do it. The car acts completely different, the best "freshening" up job you can do. It is more nimble, more controlled, flatter, and transitions on the freeway or more effortless than before. I do not feel that it is "rough" as i have seen other posts to that fact. It is just right. Over the years these cars get soft, and you forget what they felt like when new.

I measured car before and after, with no ride height difference in rear, and a 1/8 inch increase in front. I expect that to settle in a couple hundred miles, I will post results of that.

I was hesitant on the HD's but went for it, and I do not regret it. Now with HD's, Sportline Swaybars, 1 bump front&rear, 225/50-16's, I feel i have a very "balanced", car with much more grip, and a sportier feel.

Thanks to all, for your posts, and instructions.

Q
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  #8  
Old 11-02-2003, 01:09 PM
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I put HD's on my car, too, and am puzzled by other comments that we read here on this forum that the ride is "harsh". I feel the ride of my W124 completely controlled and acceptable with HD's.

I can only speculate that owner's of these higher mileage cars have become accustomed to the overly soft ride of their car with completely worn-out shocks and struts.
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  #9  
Old 11-03-2003, 01:55 PM
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I agree - an MB shouldn't be soft & fluffy. I also think folks get used to a worn-out suspension and think that's "normal", then complain when they install new parts that make it "stiff"!
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  #10  
Old 11-03-2003, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by gsxr
I agree - an MB shouldn't be soft & fluffy. I also think folks get used to a worn-out suspension and think that's "normal", then complain when they install new parts that make it "stiff"!
Exactly.

It's the same thing with the complaints about the HD's causing the car to sit higher.

Again, these owners have become used to the lowered ride height due to the sagging of their worn out struts and shocks.
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  #11  
Old 11-03-2003, 02:31 PM
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Right on guys.

The cars feels right to me, more so than ever. I have already driven about 100 miles, mix of freeway and city in Atlanta, and not once did I feel it was rough. Now I can't wait ti finish off these tires and get new ones. Many new cars, Audi A4's, Acura Type "S", BMW's, Infiniti, etc.. feel stiffer to me than this.

What put me over the top was talking directly with Bilstein, and they put to rest for me the fear of "raising" the car. That was the most disturbing to me. 1-2 inches seemed crazy. I have 1/8 raise up front, and it will settle.

I just wish these struts were sold in the US as "Sports" for non-lowered cars. HD to me sounds, well...Heavy Duty. Towing, hauling, rough roads etc.....


Thanks again guys, your contributions have always been dead on, and I hope mine are as well.

Q
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  #12  
Old 11-24-2003, 04:57 PM
hermes1
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Springs vs. Struts

"Springs affect 95% of ride height, shocks the other 5%, if even that much."

Ok, this sounds to me like if I want to lower my car, I need to replace the springs? I bought my 300E this summer with 186,000 miles on it. For some reason, it appears as if both front and rear sit just a little high off the wheelwells as in 4 inches from top of wheel to bottom of fender in the front. I know the rear struts are Bilsteins and appear to be new-ish. The car drives tight and firm as if it the struts are new, but whenever I go over a speedbump at very low speeds, the car makes a "squawk-squawk"sound as the front dips and rises once. It doesn't bobb up and down, just the normal dip and then rise back to original position. Later, when the rear goes over the bump, it makes a creaky bed sound. Are these bad springs possibly? And by changing these, spring pads and rubber bushings, would this heighten the rear and lower the front slightly (the desired effect)??

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Old 11-24-2003, 05:09 PM
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1) TO lower your car, yes, you need lowering springs like Eibach, H&R, or Mercedes Sportline (which are probably the cheapest). Or, you can cut your stock springs but this isn't the best option. You only want about 0.75-1.25" of drop or you'll end up with nuisance clearance problems with speed bumps, parking lot concrete stops, etc etc. BT, DT.

2) The creaking with suspension movement is worn bushings. The most common is the front sway bar bushings. The new ones have Teflon-lined inner sleeves, will cost about $25 for all 4, and take an hour or two to install depending on your skill level. If that doesn't stop the squeaking, your front control arm bushings might be worn. In the rear, you'll need to inspect all 5 link at BOTH ends for worn rubber. It's usually visible but you'll need to jack up the car, pull a wheel, and inspect closely with a flashlight. Springs (and spring pads) WILL NOT cause squeaking noises.

3) For a very minor ride height change - like, 0.25-0.50 inches at maximum - you can swap the rubber spring pads. This requires spring removal, which can be done with a couple hydraulic jacks in the rear, but you MUST use a proper spring compressor up front. It also depends what pads are on the car now. If you already have the thinnest pads up front, you can't lower it any more without cutting or changing springs, same if you have the thickest pads in rear and want to raise it (but that would require different springs - cutting them won't raise anything! )

HTH,
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  #14  
Old 11-24-2003, 09:40 PM
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Definitely check all other components of your suspension, thoroughly. I checked all links, replaced swaybars, with bushings to Sportline, (old bushings up front were shot). Went to 1 bumps fr/rr, and did the HD's. I love it. It feels woken up, literally. Now i just think i should just dove in, and did springs. I will be doing the springs in January, just to finalize it, and get it out of my head.

There is lots of room for improvement in handling, on these W124's. Many different set-up options, depending on the nature of your mod. Whether true track type handling, slammed look, soft OE, firmer/flatter....there are many combinations of damping, and wheels, and parts available. And someone here has done it. Its great.

Let us know what you do.

FQ
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  #15  
Old 11-25-2003, 12:43 AM
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Thanks!

Thanks HTH and FQ,

I'll definitely replace the bushings and perhaps springs too. All I'm trying to accomplish at this point is eliminate the squeeking and also lower the front end of the car just slightly so that it has a slightly forward angle (1-2 inches would be just fine). I like the look that a lot of the 1986-89 W124's had. Many had a very high clearance between rear wheelwell and the top of the rear tire coupled with a low front end. (Perhaps what I'm seeing is old broken down suspensions and I'm thinking this is OEM normal!) I had read that there were different components used back then for suspension systems vs. the post 1990 models? Do you happen to know what the early W124 OEM suspension component manufacturers were? Boge? I have a 2.6 300E so perhaps because of the lighter engine it rides higher in the front...?

LA

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