500E - what should I do? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mewing · #1 11-28-2003, 03:30 PM

I have a '92 500E with 188,000 miles. Dk. grey with black leather. It's paid for, of course. I have shopped around over the past year or two for a replacement (E55, M5, etc.) and can't justify spending up to $80K when my car still looks and runs well, and I still like driving it. To satisfy my itch to trade, I'm thinking about "souping it up" a bit, and am looking for suggestions from a group of people who understand (probably only 3 500E's in Indy area).

I spend a little time on the quarter mile (best ET: 14.10; best MPH: 101), and on road courses, but also use the car as my daily driver (can you tell by the miles?). The only things not stock at this point are K&N filters, H&R springs and 17" AMG Monoblocks.

It's time for a timing chain, major service, minor paint work (key scratch, and chips across the front), so I though it might be a good time to go ahead and do more, while it's in a shop.

I have another vehicle to drive, so I'm not in a hurry. I have shadetree mechanic experience (brakes, smog pump, oil changes, suspension...), so I'll do some of the work, but won't tear into the engine myself. I would like to spend as little as possible, of course, but definitely under $20K...between $10K and $15K would even be better. I can also do it in parts, as opposed to a year-long project. I think I want to keep my automatic, rather than changing to manual. I have always liked where and how it shifts, anyway, and it will still be a daily driver, logging around 25,000 miles per year.

I really like wagons, so I toyed with the idea of putting my front clip and drivetrain on a wagon, but think that might be to extensive and expensive.

I'm open for suggestions.

vincec · #2 11-28-2003, 04:50 PM

Mewing, ASR defeat with a Bergwerks NOS kit would be my suggestion......... :p

mewing · #3 11-28-2003, 04:57 PM

I noticed NOS is not on your list of mods to your '94! Maybe it would shorten engine life too much?

BauhnBuster · #4 11-28-2003, 10:24 PM

Quote:

ASR defeat with a Bergwerks NOS kit

This is huge bang for your buck. Contact Bergwerks.

Exhaust upgrade is another one. There have been a tonne of posts about a "Y" pipe to replace the center resonator which is proven with the Butt Dyno

according to people who have done it. Do a full exhaust maybe! A performance filter like a K&N, really, if you decide on a lot of upgrades.

Superchips makes a chip for the 500E as well as AMG (not 100% sure on that one). Maybe the NOS comes with a chip? Not sure.

I think Kleeman is coming out with a supercharger. This I am not sure of either.

Running a 14 quarter with close to 188,000 miles just goes to show how stout these motors are. Good luck and keep us posted. Cheers!

Shaun

vincec · #5 11-28-2003, 11:39 PM

http://www.500ecstasy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198

Mewing, check out the thread above www.500ecstasy.com which discusses the benefits and hopefully also addresses your concerns about NOS. NOS offers the most RWHP and torque bang-for-your-buck for our 500E500 cars than anything else out on the market at present (and probably in the forseeable future). Also, as Bauhnbuster has suggested, chipping your car and a Y pipe replacement of the central resonator are also options. I just got my Y Pipe done this past Wednesday. Check the pics I posted both on this forum and also on 500ecstacy under 'Y Pipe'. BTW, check your PM, I just PMed you. Happy modding....

#6 11-29-2003, 06:31 PM

mewing,

Your present picture is a mirror image of my situation, my 500E has 189k and needs a little routine maintanence and cosmetic work to make it perfect car for many many more years.

I want the Supercharger option A LOT, but only with Kleemann. I just wish SOMEONE would make a intake manifold that mates a V8 Kleemann SC to a M119. I've no idea how different a M119 (500E) and a M113 (current 500) engine can be but a custom manifold could solve a lot of 500E owners hankering for more juice under the hood.

Now you mentioned a 500E clip mated to a wagon rear. I pine for this combo as I am a wagon man myself. I wonder if anyone has done this? I bet this has been done in Japan as they love wagons as well.

I think I will try and keep mine and mod it a little so that is still a day to day car. I like the easy HP of NOS, but I think refilling the bottle is a pain in the you know what.

Ross

mewing · #7 11-29-2003, 06:43 PM

The Y-pipe and chip sound pretty easy, relatively inexpensive, and good starters. (I'm suprised the suggestions have not been more expensive!). Maybe these cars are just that well equipped from the factory that not much is really needed, especially for a daily driver. I always suprise people at the drag strip as I outrun 5-litre camaros and mustangs in the 1/4 with my basically stock (and heavy) family 4-door! They get me off the line, but I pass them about 2/3 to 3/4 of the way down. It's hilarious to see them look at me, look at their dash, look at me...

No one has said anything about getting into the engine, such as a cam, different pistons, bore/stroke...I can't do this myself, but there are a couple of reputable independent shops around here.

What about the Renntech E60's? Do they start with a regular 500E motor and bore and/or stroke it to six litres? Isringhausen in Springfield, IL is where I purchased my car, and they used to be authorized an Renntech dealer, but I noticed now their website says nothing about it.

Thanks for the input thus far; I'll keep watching and posting.

mewing · #8 11-29-2003, 06:45 PM

Has anyone out there done a 500E/E500 wagon???

BauhnBuster · #9 11-29-2003, 09:32 PM

The 500 E motor is pretty awesome especially considering it is almost 15 years old. Look at the stats. 1992 has 322 hp and 354 ft/lbs of torque from a 5 litre! That is awesome even with todays standards (Remember the 5 litre in the Mustangs and Z28's were kicking around 225 and 300 torque at the same time....yes I know they were pushrod and not DOHC though). That is truly the beauty of it. Some inexpensive bolt-ons ("Y" pipe, chip. and NOS and you have a very reputable 400 - 450 hp car without affecting drivability. Go to 500Ecstacy like vincec says. It is a good tool for 500E500 owners.

Shaun

Tobias MB · #10 11-30-2003, 02:04 PM

Do NOT use a good 500E to cut apart just to make a V8 wagon. Instead find a rear end hit 400E and use that as the donor for the front half of your conversion and then find a 500SL or SEL for your drivetrain. Think you could also put the beefier 400E rear subframe into the wagon chassis and go with a fun gear ratio and limited slip instead of ASR which you'd like to defeat anyway!
This would save good 500E from being a loss that you could sell after all is done and you could take your time doing it. Would be a fun project and I should do one to use as a tow car for my 190 track car.....neat combo! Nah...I'd put a Ford in it also!
Just my $.02 worth....

Tobias MB
190/5.8

Cannoli · #11 11-30-2003, 02:38 PM

Hmmm ... well, there are many options, many paths one could take to 500E Ecstasy. If it is your DD, you might consider purchasing a cheap DD replacement and put your 500E into the shop for some TLC.

TLC could include:

1) Engine Balaced & Blueprinted
2) 6.0 or 6.5L upgrade (RENNtech or Brabus)
3) New custom exhaust system
4) 1st Gear Start module/valve body (Bergwerks or RENNtech)
5) Replace the automatic tranny with a Getrag 6 speed (RENNtech has done this)
6) ASR Defeat (several ways of doing this)
7) N2O System (Bergwerks)
8) Enlarged Air Intake (RENNtech or equiv.)

All of these of course takes time and $$$ ... figure out what you want to accomplishe, plan it out ... execute!

BTW, you could talk to Isringhausen for RENNtech mods ... they are an offical RENNtech dealer.

Best of luck ... please let us know what, how, and the results when you can ...

mewing · #12 11-30-2003, 04:04 PM

Interesting idea Tobias MB, there is a '92 400E in the family, the engine in which is toast (maybe just a cracked head; it actually runs), just sitting in a garage. I think it has around 160,000 miles. Maybe start with that, as opposed to stripping my car down. As to whether my 500E is a "good" 500E; I spaced one detail...mine has 219,000, not 188,000 miles! I typed it wrong on my introductory post (my truck, that I'm driving now, has 188K). I originally thought about cutting it up or parting it out for a project car just because its worth next to nothing on the market. It's probably worth more as parts than as a complete car...I could be wrong. Is the 500SEL engine basically the same as the 500E? Or is a 500E a bored and/or stroked 400E? I never did figure that one out.

The only thing missing from your 400E/500S(E)L idea is the 500E front fenders and rear wheel wells, which really set off the car. There are quite a few souped-up wagons around here, but none with the 500E lines.

The other thought I had was to put just the upper portion of the rear of a wagon on my 500E (I have access to a couple of good body welders). I think Nissan or one of the other japanese manufacturers did this on a small 2-door coupe awhile back. Then, the job is primarily body work, without dealing with too many mechanical and electrical fits. I could then keep the interior of my car nearly intact, and have a storage area in the rear (no third row seat wanted). Besides the body lines, the main concern here would be the fuel tank location, and throwing off the balance of weight at the rear. I printed scale photos of a 500E and an E320 wagon off the Tire Rack website and pieced it together...doesn't look promising.

Norman Anthony, I like your definition of TLC. I think it's much different than my wife's! What motor does RennTech start with for a 6.0 or 6.5 upgrade?

Cannoli · #13 11-30-2003, 07:40 PM

Based on your mileage, the engine should be a 'closed' deck block, as opposed to an 'open' deck block. This is good. This allows for a less expensive displacement increase (again, RENNtech or Brabus).

For more information regarding this engine (which is unique by all means - not just a 500 SL transplant), do a search on this forum as well as 500Ecstasy.com.

It sounds like you have many options before you - good luck!

Hammer Wagon · #14 12-01-2003, 05:02 PM

http://homepage3.nifty.com/s124factory/takape.html

Do a search for E500 wagon, there were photos on this site a while ago (I may have them saved on another machine) of a black E500 wagon in the Netherlands, but there was no one that could tell the true tale of how it happened.

It was cleaner than the Japanese wagons with only an Avant Garde grill and it looked amazing.

There are photos floating on this site as well of a Japanese modded wagon with Evo style fenders front and rear.

mewing · #15 12-01-2003, 08:05 PM

Too cool! Probably just the look I'm looking for. Will try to find a photo of the inside of the rear storage compartment.