I am currently under the beginning steps of building a 1987 190E 2.3-16V TURBO motor! I have just purchased a car with a blown motor and now am going to pull the motor out and build a custom turbo/sfi and knock sensor ingition control! I can't wait to get it fully under way. Stay tuned for pics. Please post any suggestions you may have.

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Benzmac:
ASE CERTIFIED MASTER AUTO TECHNICIAN
SERVICE MANAGER FOR 14 BAY FACILITY
MERCEDES SPECIALIST 8 YRS
PARTNER IN MERCEDESSHOP.COM

Sounds like a great project. Have you considered maybe using a belt driven centrifigul supercharger like a paxton/ATI/vortec etc? The compressors themselves are not real large and all that you'd have to fabricate would be a mount for the unit, a pulley for the belt, and the hoses. I've seen 6lb. boost supercharger kits advertised for 5-liter mustang engines for less than 2000.00. One thing i would suggest though whether you turbo or supercharge,use an intercooler,a high quality ign system w/boost retard,and a rising rate fuel pressure regulater. A gulp of very hot air,hi rpm detonation, and leaning out due to lack of fuel pressure under boost can ruin your day.

Alain, I do plan to use a SFI injection system with computer crank fired ignition with knock control and independent coil design. Oh yeah also a big intercooler.

(I have to do something to try to keep up with Lee's 500E)

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Benzmac:
ASE CERTIFIED MASTER AUTO TECHNICIAN
SERVICE MANAGER FOR 14 BAY FACILITY
MERCEDES SPECIALIST 8 YRS
PARTNER IN MERCEDESSHOP.COM

If you want to show Lee your tail-lights, why not just throw in a NOx bottle?? A BIG One!!

Just kidding (I think...by the way, aren't you the guy suggesting to Lee that he perform a similar NOx surgery to his 500?)

What about suspension mods? Curious what you're gonna do...similar set-up to MBDoc?

Regards, Michael
'92 500E
'88 300TE

I can assure you that Benzmac WILL have NOx from day one with this car. It was never open for debate!

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Bill Wood - Webmaster
MercedesShop.com, LLC

YUP!!!

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Benzmac:
ASE CERTIFIED MASTER AUTO TECHNICIAN
SERVICE MANAGER FOR 14 BAY FACILITY
MERCEDES SPECIALIST 8 YRS
PARTNER IN MERCEDESSHOP.COM

Whether the 500E ever starts sniffing "funny fumes" is still open to debate...

Benzmac's crotch-rocket (to be) 16v ought to be plenty for the 500E to deal with without NOx. With enough boost that is...

Can't wait to find out...Lee


[This message has been edited by Lee Scheeler (edited 08-13-1999).]

Sorry; apparently I misunderstood or underestimated y'all's rabid need for more power, which I applaud!

Now, given that Lee's got me thinking about spraying some NOx in the direction of my own 500E, I'm curious about a few things before I jump in.
1.) Who sells a unit that can easily be bolted into the 500E (or Benzmac's "crotch rocket")
2.) How often do you turn on "the gas", and for how long can it be left on?
3.) Besides horsepower (and smiles), what else does the NOx generate...heat? Detonation?
4.) Just how much more power do you expect when the NOx is flowing?

I can tell already this is gonna be interesting...GO BENZMAC!

Michael
'92 500E
'88 300TE

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The NOx can be used for 7 seconds or so. It will knock if not correctly installed. It is the coldest liquid known to man so I don't think it will produce that much more heat in 7 sec. bursts.
I think NOS can set you up.

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Benzmac:
ASE CERTIFIED MASTER AUTO TECHNICIAN
SERVICE MANAGER FOR 14 BAY FACILITY
MERCEDES SPECIALIST 8 YRS
PARTNER IN MERCEDESSHOP.COM

Awlright, now you've got my full attention! Now, does NOx purely make things happen my chilling the bejesus out of the intake charge (and therefore improving charge density)?

If so, then is that why you get only 7 seconds or so...'cuz everything ambiently kinda heats up (like the intake runners, etc.)?

Also, interested in who could perform an install/supply the parts for a 500E guinea-pig (If Lee doesn't figure this out first!)

Best regards, Michael


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My understanding is that in addition to being cold as can be, NOx also combusts with less O2 present. There is less energy in it than gasoline, but the NOx requires less air to burn so you can put a bigger AND colder (hence denser) charge in the cylynder.

I think the approx 7 second rule comes from an engine like the M119.974 V8 gobbling tons of fuel/air/NOx. If that is the case, one would think the duration could be dependent on the size of the bottle (or bottles) fitted. Judging by the numbers 500E's are putting up in the 1/4, low 13's to mid 12's are a reality with NOx.

As for who supplies the parts...NOS should be able to do that. Install would depend on the config of the kit they supplied you with. Where that installation would take place? In ATL I would say Benzmac's or Lee's driveway/garage. Seriously, NOS should be able to give you a list of recommended installers in your area. Beyond that would Benzmac have any tips/pointers/warnings/etc for installing a fogger plate or some nozzles on a M119?

To address some of Michael's earlier questions. NOS can probably sell you a kit or point you to a recommended retailer/distributor. You can turn on the gas whenver you want, for as long as the canister lasts. Probably only good for 1/4 mile runs though. As Benzmac said, detonation can be a problem if the system is done improperly. You can expect as much power as the amount of NOS you run. More gas = more stress on the car. Since more power is only a matter of adding more gas it is easy to get gonzo numbers (and also easy to toast your engine or drivetrain) Talking previously with Benzmac, the numbers of 100-150HP NOS kit have been mentioned. A 75-100HP kit would likely last "on-boost" longer and be easier on the motor.

You would think that with that much extra oomph on tap you would have to do things like special or wider rear tires, ASR defeat (need it anyway...), and perhaps some ignition upgrades. There is also the concern of the touchy MB electronics going a tad nuts when they see the NOx running through like bad takeout. Just curious about how much drilling, cutting, re-engineering would be necessary to mount the NOx tank(s), lines, injectors, etc? Michael, if you do go ahead with this please let me know. Can't wait to see how that turns out. In the meantime I can't wait to see Benzmac's 16v project progress!

Lee

Lee, your statement about nitrous oxide is incorrect. From the NOS homepage:
First, nitrous oxide is comprised of 2 parts nitrogen and one part oxygen (36% oxygen by weight). When the nitrous oxide is heated to approximately 572oF (on compression stroke), it breaks down and release extra oxygen, However, it is not this oxygen alone which creates additional power, but the ability of this oxygen to burn more fuel. By burning more fuel, higher cylinder pressures are created and this is where most of the additional power is realized. Secondly, as pressurized nitrous oxide is injected into the intake manifold, it changes from a liquid to a gas (boils). This boiling affect reduces the temperature of the nitrous to a minus .127 Degrees F. This "cooling affect" in turn significantly reduces intake charge temperatures by approximately 60-75 Degrees F. This also helps create additional power.

LJADJA,
Thanks for the info. It is always a good thing to learn more specifics. Given the profound cooling effects of NOS and the noted extreme temp sensitivity of DOHC MB cars, one would think the gain in performance would be REALLY great/profound in hot weather! (beyond the normal gains from NOS with most cars) Many DOHC cars seem to lose at least a second 0-60 (maybe 1.5 secs in the 1/4) due to ambient temp. Put em "on the bottle" and gawd would they go...

Soooo LJADJA, since you have visited the NOS page are you thinking of the stuff for the C36? You could take some serious revenge on the M3 crowd...

Lee

Actually I feel NOS is like cheating. The M3 guy can do the same and we would be back to square one. What got me thinking, though, was installing a system for the 240D. Even a low 50hp boost means I would have almost twice the power! I do not need the 240D to be a drag racer, but sometimes it does need some power that it doesn't have to get out of the way or overtake. It really suffers in that respect and it can even become dangerous. Only dreaming...