Bio vs. Dino-Diesel: Real or Imagined?

The "service station" closest to my office just happens to offer B20 as well as dino-Diesel. Now isn't that nice!

So I've alternated between tanks of B20 and Dino, and it seems to me that I get roughly 1.5 MPG better fuel mileage on Dino-Diesel, but the car runs smoother - considerably so - on B20.

Have any of you out there run B20 versus Dino? Do you notice the same effect or is it simply psychosomatic on my part? I like running B20 as it costs exactly the same per gallon as Dino but with only 20% concentration of Bio, I suspect that I may be imagining and convincing myself of the smoother running.

Cheers!

[raMBow]

I too get better mileage on the Dino (have not checked but for me it seems like it is a few mpg), but I like the muted purr of the B20 and it's cleansing abilities. Have been running mostly B20 for a couple of years now (15,000 miles +-) and just did the filters this past weekend, two small black specks in the pre-filter only.

[a_merc]

Yep, lots of us have run bio some of us even make the stuff in our garages, and some of us are running straight vegetable oil (svo), or waste vegetable oil (wvo). Your mpg findings and smoother running observations are right on.

If you use the search function for the threads you can find out a lot more, as most guys expect you to do that first, and ask when you get stumped.

READ, SEARCH, READ, SEARCH.

But it' nice to have you around. Just be careful, bio acts as a solvent so you need to read up on what fuel lines you have and make sure it wont degrade yours. Also, some of the guys recomend changing filters more often because the bio will nock the deposits in your tank and lines loose.

Happy searching

I do not plan to run WVO or SVO until I see a TSB from Mercedes that approves its use.

However, thanks for the tips regarding B20. I can't imagine that a mere 20% concentration will degrade rubber fuel lines. If I ran B80 or B100 that would be a different story, but I'll keep an eye on the fuel lines without expecting to change them for B20.

[MeinGreaseCar]

Those fuel lines are going to age, crack and deteriorate on their own. It won't have anything to do with B20. Well, hardly anything.

Those of us running B100 just accept the fact that it may mean we have to replace 20 bucks worth of fuel hose at year 4 instead of year 10.

JP

[a_merc]

Originally Posted by mrhills0146

I do not plan to run WVO or SVO until I see a TSB from Mercedes that approves its use.

I doubt MB will ever release TSB that will approve it, due to the fact that it would require money to research the WVO, SVO usage and that's money they wouldnt recover. However, If you google around the web, you will find that ,the opinion is widely held, the MB 5 cyl. is one of the best candidates for the grease car.

Originally Posted by mrhills0146

However, thanks for the tips regarding B20. I can't imagine that a mere 20% concentration will degrade rubber fuel lines. If I ran B80 or B100 that would be a different story, but I'll keep an eye on the fuel lines without expecting to change them for B20.

I dont think its the concetration per gallon but the total amount over time that causes the degredation of natural rubber. Once again, this information is readily available through the search function and other websites through googling.

I personally have run B100 in my tank once and continue to mix B50 for my everyday use, and have just had my first hose replacements. My return lines have swollen and do not fit properly around the orfice on the injectors.

but dont take my word for it......search a little

[ConnClark]

B20 has less BTUs than dino diesel that is why your mileage drops. Now if they made B20 using animal fats it would have a higher BTU content and you would get better mileage.

Thanks Conn.

Mileage drop is so small that it may often be offset by changes in driving patterns, running the A/C, and so on.

I'll trade 1 extra MPG for smoother running any day.

FYI - last tank of got 26.88 MPG on a mix of city/highway with AC running. On the last tank of B20 it was 26.01. I cannot complain.

[Old300D]

Originally Posted by MeinGreaseCar

Those fuel lines are going to age, crack and deteriorate on their own. It won't have anything to do with B20. Well, hardly anything.

Those of us running B100 just accept the fact that it may mean we have to replace 20 bucks worth of fuel hose at year 4 instead of year 10.

JP

Yes, B20 is very benign. I noticed no (extra) leaks when I first started filling with B20, then blending B100 to B20 or B30 into my tank when I wanted more. And if you replace hoses with Viton, you don't have to worry about them for a long while.

[winmutt]

I run ~B50 without a signifigant hit on power or economy. And it sure runs quieter.

[a_merc]

Originally Posted by ConnClark

B20 has less BTUs than dino diesel that is why your mileage drops. Now if they made B20 using animal fats it would have a higher BTU content and you would get better mileage.

Can you make Bio out of waste cooking oil that contains animal fat?

I have access to as much of that as I can use. If so, I am going to start colecting it.

[Maroon 300D]

Originally Posted by winmutt

I run ~B50 without a signifigant hit on power or economy. And it sure runs quieter.

I'm wondering whether B20 should really make much of a differnce mileage-wise. When I run B99 I tend to get about 24 mpg as opposed to 25. I would think that with B20 the difference would be about .2 gallons for my car...

Maroon:

That is what I'm saying - the 0.8 MPG difference between B20 and dinodiesel that I saw on the last comparison may have nothing at all to do with different fuel. It could be different mix of driving, different amounts of pressure applied to the vertical pedal on the right, different use of A/C, any number of things.

I most definitely am surprised that the car runs so much smoother on B20. Would like to try a few tanks of stronger concentrations but can't find it anywhere around Atlanta. Sheer luck that the station near my office offers B20 - for the same price as 100% dinosaur juice.

I've searched all over the web locating bio stations - if anyone knows of locations offering other than B20 in Atlanta, I'm all ears.

[ConnClark]

Originally Posted by a_merc

Can you make Bio out of waste cooking oil that contains animal fat?

I have access to as much of that as I can use. If so, I am going to start colecting it.

Yes you can though I haven't done it. Animal fats gell up at a higher temperature so I woun't try this in a very cold climate.

http://www.rendermagazine.com/February2006/AnimalFatsPerformWell.pdf

EDIT: Note B20 has about 2% less BTU's than dino diesel, B100 has about 7% less.

[Tomlinson]

Biodiesel has less BTU's then Low sulphur diesel(LSD). However Ultra low sulphur diesel(ULSD) has less BTU's also. ULSD will also degrade natural rubber fuel lines. In North America all OEM's switched to synthetic lines in 1993. As far as fuel economy some users are getting better mileage from low level blends(like B20) due to higher Cetane, higher Lubricity , and Biodiesel is 11% Oxygen by volume. These three properties combine to produce a more complete burn of the petroldiesel portion of the fuel.

Gary T