Starter health is important to your diesel.

[whunter]

Starter health is important to your diesel!!!

How well do you know your diesel?
Can you tell when your starter is getting old and weak?
Is starter cranking speed important?
When do you need more cranking power from the starter, summer or winter?
How long can you crank the starter?
How long must the starter rest between cranking?
Can you destroy the starter?
Will knowing these answers save you money?

These are serious deep thought questions, do you know the answers?

[Hatterasguy]

Well my starter was replaced in 1994 with a MB one. My starter doesn't work that hard. My engine kind of just turns over once and comes right to life. When its warm it seems to just start with a touch of the key. But when it does have to crank it cranks quickly and does not get hot very fast.


How is that?

[whunter]

Edit:
More critical data.

http://www.eng.wayne.edu/page.php?id=754

Preparing for Extremes
http://asumag.com/mag/university_preparing_extremes/

http://www.difflock.com/diesel/troubleshooting.shtml

http://www.internationaldelivers.com/assets/pdf/dyk214.pdf

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/16594482/gotomsg/16655873.cfm

Starter cranking RPM sound files


.

[redbaronph123]

i think i have a dying starter. Whether the engine is cold or not.. the starter churns at a quite slow pace at start then livens up a bit. That's when the engine starts.

My battery was bought last May 2004, and is still quite strong.

At times when i start the car it makes a sound that goes like it is slipping or something. My mechanic friend suggested that we check out the bendix as it might be sticking. Havent gotten around to bringing it in for a checkup though.. but the car is really a dog to start!.... i normally crank it in a couple of seconds.. if the engine doesnt catch.. i turn it off and start the cycle of starting the car again...

[whunter]

Hello redbaronph123
Sounds like your starter has gone critical.
Suggest you replace it before it dies.

[BrierS]

Originally Posted by whunter

How well do you know your diesel?
Can you tell when your starter is getting old and weak?
Is starter cranking speed important?
When do you need more cranking power from the starter, summer or winter?
How long can you crank the starter?
How long must the starter rest between cranking?
Can you destroy the starter?
Will knowing these answers save you money?

These are deep thought questions, do you know the answers?

Okay. I want to give this a try.
1) Yes. I think I can tell when my starter is getting old and weak.
2) Yes. Starter cranking speed is important.
3) Though I want to say you would need more during the winter due to oil thickness, engine component temperature being colder, I am going to say you need the same summer and winter. The cranking power of a healthy starter should be the same summer and winter. The available amps from the battery would be the factor during the winter.????
4) I read the answer to this in one of the manuals but don't remember. I will guess no longer than 30 seconds but the answer might be until it overheats, depletes the battery, or starts the vehicle.
5) Yes. You can destroy the starter but shouldn't.
6) Yes. So I am going to find the answer to number 4.

I have a spare starter and really don't want to have to use it. The condition of the bushings and brushes must be considered. Yes?

[mikemover]

Cranking speed is very important.

An old, "tired" starter will eventually get to the point where it will not turn the engine fast enough to get it started, just like the effects of a weak battery. This will become most evident in cold weather, of course. Especially if your engine has a lot of miles and lower compression, or the glow plugs aren't exactly new. Cranking power is much more critical in cold weather...obviously the engine will be more difficult to start....the oil is colder and doesn't flow as well....batteries will typically not perform at their peak....

I wouldn't recommend continuosly cranking on a starter for long periods of time without giving it a break to cool down. It will get very hot and reduce the lifespan of the starter. Such abuse can easily finish off an older, worn starter. I've also seen someone melt their starter wires by doing this.

If the engine doesn't fire in the first 10-15 seconds, I'd wait 30-45 seconds (with the glow plugs on) and try again.

ANY extra knowledge about your car can potentially save you money.

Mike

Sure!
My 300SD came with a brand new starter (BOSCH!) and new battery and 'new' autolite glowplugs.
Well apparently 3 starts on autolites caused them to burn out (haha) so I repaced those.
Anywho, working in an auto electric shop and diagnosing weak/bad starters/alternators I would say I could most likely identify these things.
Summer and winter each have their own problems. Summer (if your starter gets hot from exhaust/engine/whatnot temperatures) you can have problems. Winter, thick oils, not wanting to burn cold diesel, etc. will attack the winters "cold motor" performance. But this is usually also thrown in with weaker battery operation.
I glow my engine the same amount of time my chime for my seat belt goes (1.5-2 times the glow light time) when it is cold and it purrs up just fine.
I never have to crank a starter long...seeing a few melted down on the inside, I always take it easy. Usually you can hear physical slowing as the armature/field starts to generate heat and become unhappy magnetized wire.
You want to see a test of starters?
Take a look at a marine starter...simply..disgusting heh.
I like working starters though
my bug had one with problems where it would draw 1000+ amps while not actually turning over very well (acted like a weak battery)
Bad field I believe. But those are easy and cheap rebuilds.

[whunter]

new (to me) 240d won't start

[Ara T.]

My car starts right up. On some hot days, it will crank for a second or two, otherwise I barely turn the key and it'll start. Sorta related question, but there's a kid that drives a 79 300D (non turbocharged, poor bastard), and his glowplugs don't work, so he sits there cranking for like 5 seconds or more...is it harmful on the engine without glowplugs?

[mikemover]

Originally Posted by Ara T.

My car starts right up. On some hot days, it will crank for a second or two, otherwise I barely turn the key and it'll start. Sorta related question, but there's a kid that drives a 79 300D (non turbocharged, poor bastard), and his glowplugs don't work, so he sits there cranking for like 5 seconds or more...is it harmful on the engine without glowplugs?

He's not doing any harm to the engine, but it's very bad for the starter and battery.

Mike

[Brian Carlton]

Originally Posted by Ara T.

My car starts right up. On some hot days, it will crank for a second or two, otherwise I barely turn the key and it'll start. Sorta related question, but there's a kid that drives a 79 300D (non turbocharged, poor bastard), and his glowplugs don't work, so he sits there cranking for like 5 seconds or more...is it harmful on the engine without glowplugs?

There is no harm to the engine whatsoever.

If he cranks it up within 15 seconds, there is no harm to the starter, whatsoever.

But, the starter is an item that provides a certain amount of hours before it needs to be overhauled. He would get quite a few more starts from a given starter if he had working glow plugs.

[Hatterasguy]

Originally Posted by Ara T.

My car starts right up. On some hot days, it will crank for a second or two, otherwise I barely turn the key and it'll start. Sorta related question, but there's a kid that drives a 79 300D (non turbocharged, poor bastard), and his glowplugs don't work, so he sits there cranking for like 5 seconds or more...is it harmful on the engine without glowplugs?

I'm not sure where you are but winters coming fast! When it passes that magic temp it won't matter how long it cranks.

[Jim Anderson]

Check all the electrical connections, including the ground wire that bolts to the block.

I must have a killer starter for it to survive this and still start in 27*f weather!

I did some voltage drop tests on my starting system:

+ battery terminal to starter relay/sol= 3.89v!
Across the relay (On the starter)= 1.68V
- battery terminal to starter housing= 1.97v

That leaves the starter 5.06V to work with! Yet it shows no sign of slow cranking, drag, or problems. Mabye I need to re-check my measurments This does not seem possible.