OT: but always on topic... secure raised vehicles!

[tomscat1]

http://WWW.STACKSTANDS.COM/

Info from Christian's dad. Check these out.... Strong sturdy, no moving parts. Worth a look?


Safety first, safety last, safety always.

[funola]

Originally Posted by tomscat1

Hey.... I just realized you are in CT also....
I am in East Lyme. Perhaps our paths will cross at some point.

I'm 60 miles west of you down 95. Always good to meet a fellow Mercedes dieselhead.

[funola]

I couldn't find my owners manual so went to Sears to look it up. I told the salesman about the accident in CT and he knew about it. He was very helpful and made a copy of the manual from a jack stand on the shelf for me.

Here it is. There's no warnings about not bumping the handle or positioning it with the handle facing away from the car.

[tomscat1]

All credit to Tom D., Frederick, and 'funola', and many others who are working/thinking about this, for the benefit of all. Great work!
--------------------

I have compiled a little of what you guys have done, and I want to post it here--- and a bunch of other places, too---- in case anyone missed it. It is important stuff to know, and too important to miss.


OK Boys and Girls, we have some of our Best Guys working on this, in the interest of keeping everyone safe. Please read it:

From ‘funola”, Peachparts Mercedes Shopforum Diesel Discussion

I dug out my Craftsman ratcheting jack stand and gave it a close look and a quick test. Mine is the 3 ton and I assume the 4 ton is of simillar design. I raised it halfway, crouched, stood and balanced myself on it, reached down and yanked upward on the handle. To my surprise, it (and I) dropped all the way to the bottom! That was very sobering! Jack stand with pins will never do that! I was expecting it to catch on the next tooth on the rack but not so. The handle only needs to be raised upwards 3/4" to release the rack for it to drop. I'll try to find the owners manual and see what warnings/ instructions are provided.

With the car's weight (let's say 3000 lbs) on the jackstands, how much force is required to hit the handle at such an angle and cause it to go up 3/4"? Any mechanical engineers here want to take a stab at it? The jack release handle is 4.5" long.


From Tom D.... bimmerforums E21 1975-83

it's actually just a simple machine and the mechanical advantage can be calculated. however, one factor is missing, the small section of the lever on the other side of the fulcrum. lets assume it's 1 inch. the handle is 4.5 inches. the car is 3000 lb.. and has a 50/50 weight ratio. each corner carries a load of 750lb. the mechanical advantage is 4.5 therefore it would take a total of 167 lb. of force to release the lock.

3000/4 = 750
750/1 * 1/4.5 = 167

keeping in mind that work in is always equaled to work out, so in order to raise 750 lb. 3/4". you would have to exert 167 lb. on the lever for a distance of 3 3/8 "

4.5/1 * 1/.75 = 3.375

__________________

This also assumes no damage to the ratchet or pawl and a full engagement... If you saw the pic of the junk stand I found IN USE you have to question yourself... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot are you thinking????

Thanks Tom D.

fjk, jr. (Frederick J. Klorcyzk, jr.)

------------------------------------------------------

From Tom D. again bimmerforums E21 1975-83

i finally got a chance to look at my ratchet stands and my calculations although are correct, the operation of the ratchet is not like i imagined it.

the corner weight is still 750 lb.

the lever is 5.5" on one side of the fulcrum and 1.5" on the other. that makes the mechanical advantage 8.25

the pawl only needs to lift the weight 1/16" and move sideways 1/8" to disengage.

so without allowing for friction it would only take 90 lb. of force to lift and 1/2" of travel on the handle to move it off it's perch.

not good!

Tom D
----------------------------------------------------
From ‘funola”, Peachparts Mercedes Shopforum Diesel Discussion
I couldn't find my owners manual so went to Sears to look it up. I told the salesman about the accident in CT and he knew about it. He was very helpful and made a copy of the manual from a jack stand on the shelf for me.

Here it is. There's no warnings about not bumping the handle or positioning it with the handle facing away from the car.




OT: but always on topic... secure raised vehicles!

__________________

I am going to post this all over the place, and I encourage everyone else to do the same. There was another report of a guy killed under his car in Texas last week.

[barry123400]

I am not going to review the whole area. The actual load on the stand when under use is far less than 3000 pounds. So the release pressure will be correspondingly much lower than you estimated.

I never really liked the look of those stands myself. I never was able to fathom out how they were really much safer than a jack.Other than their lower height giving a more effective footprint. To compound this further the footprint on them seems less than I like. I would also take a grinder and touch an area of the ratchet to see if some are just cast iron by the color of the sparks.

That was just by visual examination. They just made me feel uncomforatable. I do do some things over time that are potentially dangerous but it is always taken into consideration and minumized as much as possible. Getting under a car with just these is not one of them although I fully realise many thousands do. Call me a chicken if you wish. But once blocked up on timbers I have no concerns. The feeling of risk is displaced.

If I were to use these they would be the pin type and probably fabricated by me to get a better footprint. Personally I block cars up with wood if a pit or hoist is not available. .

[tomscat1]

http://thefacts.com/news/article_d66505f4-3f03-11e0-bd41-001cc4c002e0.html

71 yr old, under a lift.

Very sad.

[kerry]

Originally Posted by tomscat1

http://thefacts.com/news/article_d66505f4-3f03-11e0-bd41-001cc4c002e0.html

71 yr old, under a lift.

Very sad.

I couldn't read the whole story. Any explanation of how and why it happened?

[tomscat1]

Originally Posted by kerry

I couldn't read the whole story. Any explanation of how and why it happened?

Someone mentioned the story in a forum the other day, and that is all I have been able to find so far. I will keep looking.

[barry123400]

A single cylinder four point lift has to be respected as well. Caution when placing the pads and common sense when application of pressures is involved has to be kept in mind.

At the local gm dealership years ago a car came off the hoist forward trapping the mechanic between the car and the wall. He was given the position of shop forman when he eventually recovered and served decades in that position.

[tomscat1]

Here is another one.... A car hoist accident from Australia in February 2010.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:TGeGQNQKJ0IJ:www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2010/02/17/189621_gold-coast-news.html

Here is another lift accident from rhode island last May 2010.
http://newsblog.projo.com/2010/05/police-id-mechanic-killed-when.html

It can happen to you. Think safety.

[tomscat1]

http://thefacts.com/news/article_d66505f4-3f03-11e0-bd41-001cc4c002e0.html

71 yr old, under a lift.

Very sad.


Here is another one.... A car hoist accident from Australia in February 2010.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:TGeGQNQKJ0IJ:www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2010/02/17/189621_gold-coast-news.html

Indiana:
http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/local/marion_county/car-falls-on,-kills-man-at-southeast-side-apartments

Sandusky, Ohio
http://www.sanduskyregister.com/port-clinton/2010/oct/13/port-clinton-car-falls-jack-kills-man-33

Jacksonville Fl:
http://www.news4jax.com/news/26402651/detail.html

Michigan Today! April 11 2011
http://www.wsbt.com/news/wsbt-michigan-man-dies-after-car-falls-off-jack-traps-him-20110411,0,3424726.story

Toronto Canada
http://toronto-on.ca/2011/03/man-killed-when-car-falls-on-him/

Genesee Township, Michigan
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2011/02/genesee_township_man_dies_afte.html

It can happen to you. Think safety.

[funola]

Tom, thanks for all the warnings and links. We can never be too safe! I never liked working under the car, that's why it took me almost 2 years before changing out my weak starter. I consider myself very safety concious but will be even more vigilant in the future when I have to work under the car.

[tomscat1]

I was amazed at how many I just found. Including one that happened today! Stay safe.

[tomscat1]

More info from Christian's dad :

"Two jackstands (AMERICAN MADE) that I will stake my and other's lives on
After extensive jackstand research and talks with many sales reps I have narrowed my search down to the following:

Emerson
ES-12 Series

Gray USA
Gray USA, manufacturer of hydraulic jacks and lifting equipment

These are not fool proof, automatic or safe when used in an improper manner. The operator must still insert a pin to lock the stand and you must utilize the right jackstand points. Hopefully a pin in good usable condition and not a rusty bolt will be used as well. This design eliminates any chance of "partial engagement of ratchet / pawl" as has been thrown around and it eliminates any arguments (we've heard both sides) "as to whether a loaded ratchet style stand can drop".

I am not suggesting these are for everyone nor am I insulting those who believe in and use others made in Asia. I am only stating my opinion as to what stands will be in the garages and pits of the guys in my carguy group.

Lastly, I am certainly not implying that these devices are the end all and be all in safety around cars. Obviously, the jackstand is only one part of the safety procedures we should ALL exercise and TEACH when working on 3,000 pound and up vehicles.

Sincerely,

fjk, jr"

Kudos, Frederick, and thank you.

[tomscat1]

Safety First: Homemade Stands

Although I wrote this for my BMW, safety is never off topic.

We haven't discussed this issue in a while, but this message never gets old. Be safe out there, fellas. I haven't been under my car for any significant work in a while, but I am now about to undertake some serious work to my 1989 325ix: the automatic transmission failed (275K) on Thanksgiving Day. I have been debating my options, and the bottom line is that the auto tranny or the transfer case (which is good), at the very least, has to come out, regardless.

Since I don't have a lift, I will be doing this work under the car. Anyone who doesn't recognize that this is dangerous work is just ignorant, or not paying attention. You may recall a series of posts here last year after the tragic death of a local young man, Christian Klorczyk.

http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2011/03/time-out-public-service-safety-message.html
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2011/03/time-out-public-service-safety-message_23.html
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2011/03/jackstand-safety.html
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2011/03/jackstand-safety-ii.html
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2011/04/another-avoidable-tragedy.html
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2011/04/video-falling-jack-stands.html
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2011/04/surprise-are-ratchetting-jack-stands.html
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2011/04/jack-stand-safety-iv.html
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2011/04/safety-first-safety-last-safety-always.html
http://baurspotting.blogspot.com/2011/04/texas-man-killed-under-car-lift.html

So, you know where I stand: safety first, safety last, safety always. I have taken a cue from bimmerforums member 'potenza' in preparing for this tranny work. I am in his debt for the pics of the homemade wooden stands he built for his car. Here are some pics of the set up I have built in preparation for working under the car to remove the tranny/transfer case on my 1989 325ix. I built the wood stands yesterday, and lifted the car onto them this afternoon. I apologize for the poor pic quality... I took these pics late in the day with my iphone. The rear wheels are supported on six (6) 2"x10"x24" slabs, nailed and screwed together, with a 2x12x24 base, and 2x8 or 10 chocks screwed to the base. The rear wheels cannot move. The rear wheels are therefore about 10 1/2" off the ground.

The front wheels are supported on steel ramps of approximately equal height to the rear supports. The front wheels cannot move forward, but they can move backward.... although the rear wheels cannot move at all. I may yet build a second set of stands with built-in wheel chocks for the front wheels, similar to what is now suppporting the rear wheels. Again, I apologize for the lousy pic quality.

Since I am not working on any wheels, this set up seems to work fairly well for my purposes. It is solid, and it would take a lot of torque (more than I am capable of, I am sure) to move the car off its perch. I will probably still add some redundant support with jack stands, etc., just in case.

I offer this in memory of Christian Klorczyk.


I am also indebted to his father, Frederick, for his committment to safety for all of us, and to 'potenza' for his pics of the homemade wooden stands which I used to make mine. Be safe out there, fellas. It can happen to you. Trust me on this. Read the links above if you don't think so.

Baurspotting