What type of 380SL do I Have?

[kschmitt]

Hello,

New to this forum but only because I just got an 81 380SL with 110k miles on it. Unfortunately, that's where my knowledge stops with it. I believe it is a Grey Market car because of the Euro engine (what type, I have no idea, that is what the people I got it from said), bumper, and headlights.

My specifc question is how do I figure out what I have? Can it all be gained through the VIN?

It is in a serious need of a paint job and took it over to a body shop already. Saw the whole car stripped down and, good news, never in an accident but it has been repainted on the right side two times. Planning on keeping the same color - "shiny brown?".

I have also come to realize that I will need new molding and would be glad to here about some good places to obtain new chrome molding. Don't know if I can get new rubber peices for the Front and Rear bumper as well.

Anyway, I am just trying to get a handle of what I have and to make the car into something better to use for the weekends with my wife and going to work everynow and then.

BTW, based on all the posts in the Forum, I will be checking items such as the timing chain as soon as the paint job is done but is their any other "gotcha's" that I should be concered with? Saw some posts about frame recall but couldn't figure out if it applies to my car or not.

Anyway, hope everyone has a safe Labor Day!

Kevin
81 380SL

[kip Foss]

Kevin,

Try www.adsitco.com. Also if you are going to put any money into your car you might see about getting registered with your local MB dealer as a commercial business. I called myself a restoration co. and not only get a very good discount but can get many of the parts I need right at the shop. My local MB dealer can match or beat most of the stuff in catalogs. Besides you can bargin with the parts man where you can't with a catalog co.

If your car has Euro lights and bunpers then the chances are good that it is a Euro. Check the vin with your MB dealer.

[Gilly]

Welcome to Mercedesshop.
Look at the VIN and see what the 4 numbers are after the "WDB". A 380SL should be WDBBA45. If it's not BA45, let us know what it is and maybe we can help more.
Also if the paint in the underhood area is original you may spot some sort of emission labeling, this should tell you if it's a US spec car or not. The headlights are easily swapped from a Euro car, and the bumpers too, so I wouldn't "buy" that it's a greymarket yet. If it's greymarket, usually somewhere on the car is a tag that says who converted the car to US specs. Usually in the drivers door jamb, sometimes on the radiator support.
Also on a Euro car (prior to being converted) there is a dial near the headlight switch which allows the headlamps to be adjusted up and down (range adjustment) which has to be disabled to meet US specs, but often this dial is still there, this is another tip-off to a greymarket, unless someone changed this all over, usually the conversions aren't this complete though.
You can also ask an MB dealer to run a "VMI" (vehicle master inquiry) which should be free, and see if they say it's greymarket. If they come up with lots of warranty repairs and the date and US dealer code for delivery, etc you'll know it's not grey.
Gilly

[kschmitt]

Hello Gilly,

The VIN is WDB10704512004961 so it doesn't have WDBBA45.

I know that headlight switch and it causes the headlights to either point straight at position 0 or more towards the ground at position 3, I think. I know that it still works.

Thanks for your help! I'm excited already!

[Gilly]

Starting in 1980, on US versions anyways, they went to this 17 digit VIN. It may not have been a "worldwide" standard though. BUT a model 107.045 is a 380SL, I can tell you that much, but now it does sound more likely to be a greymarket car. I would discount the fact it's grey based on the headlights and bumpers though, but the other info (headlight range adjustment switch, etc). Did you look for a VIN plate on the drivers side windshield pillar, just inside the glass?
On the radiator support there should be a plate with numbers stamped in it. There should be an area with a few 3 digit numbers stamped into it, if you can write a post with those digits listed I could maybe find out what market it was intended for.
Any luck finding a plate with the info on who converted the car to US spec?
Do you have any papers on the car from MB? Anything along the lines of a owners manual, warranty book, or a slip of paper called a "Wartungsheft" that lists the engine number, etc?

Gilly

[kschmitt]

Hello Gilly,

Well, I will have to get all of that for you as soon as I can get back to the Body shop and take a look at the stampings. (probably on Tuesday) I know it has the owners manual and some other paperwork with it, just never took a good look at it.

Really appreciate your help on this. I feel that if I at least know where the car started from and what it is, it would make decisions such as how much money to invest into it more worthwhile.

I can tell you this, from a stop to hard on the guess, this thing just flies off the line. I am very impressed. Never really had a car that flew off the line like this one can.

I have read some posts that these cars are suppose to start in 2nd gear but I cannot ever remember where it even did that. Should it or should I not be concerned by it.

It also has the funkiest heating controls that I have seen. I haven't quite figured them out. They are slides with arrows and knobs for fan control.

And, I think the car as ABS?! That seems like it would be too early but I have a break idiot light that says ABS on it.

Kevin

[Gilly]

I can't find exactly the first year was that MB offered ABS. I do know it is a listed option for the 380SL, I rather doubt as early as 1981 though. The cluster may have been swapped to get a MPH speedo in this car, I would think they would have swapped just the speedo itself though, not the whole cluster. I can do a little more research in it though. It would be easy to just check under the hood area, on the drivers side front, for an ABS hydraulic unit. (EDIT: Point being is that if the whole cluster was swapped, it may have come out of a later car with ABS)
This car SHOULD have an early 722.3 transmission with first-gear start only, this is supposed to be the case from Oct 1980 to Oct 1981. After Oct 1981 it was second-gear start. Unless the driveline is non-original or something, it would be easy to check the transmission number, it's on the right side of the transmission case itself, above the oil pan, stamped into the case. Look for the "722." number, should be 722.3, plus a rather large string of numbers. May be numbers in front of the "722" also.
I think this thing may have the dreaded "servo-motor" setup if it has automatic climate control. It could be a rather simple manual control too, maybe with AC tagged onto it too, does it have AC? Hopefully the manual will help some, especially if you know German (may be German language). If you don't know German, many high schools, etc of course teach German, you could contact the instructor, photocopy the climate control instructions, and hand it out to his class for homework!(convert to English, he can give extra credit if they want to translate how to change a flat tire!). In general you need to know that "up" arrows mean the defrost slots, the down arrows mean the floor outlets, and blue is cold and red is hot. Very often you will see right and left controls, YES dual zone climate control existed at MB LONG before the Big Three had it! No Kiddin'! The dash vents usually are individually controlled (knobs under the dash vents, or the vent itself is rotated to open or close). Does this have the one switch that turns on the AC compressor?
The fact it is a strong runner off the line is of course a big positive, can't argue with success. If these are in a good state of tune they can be a real hoot to drive. A well sorted out 560SL is a REAL handful! These, like I say if they are running right, are real sleepers, fun to "outshoot" some punk off the line in a Honda with a "coffee can" muffler and 3 foot rear spoiler in your creaky old MB. Take THAT ya greasy punk!

Gilly

[kschmitt]

Hi Gilly,

It does have a Blue AC Switch, simple on and off. Doesn't blow any cold however, I am planning on getting that checked out as well.

Anyway, as soon as I get some numbers as you suggested, I'll post them back.

Thanks again!

Kevin

[kschmitt]

Here is what I got back from MBUSA. Don't know if this tells me much about the engine. What I am trying to figure out is if I have the 215 PS or the 204 PS European Engine (Higher Compression than US Version). The Engine number, or at least everything I can find on the Web, only points to the 155 HP version. Are the engine numbers the same even though one had different components in it?

Or maybe, this is the fastest 155HP car I have ever seen but I just don't think that is the case.

VEHICLE IDENT. NO: WDB 107045 12 004961 7
VEHICLE MODEL : 380 SL
TYPE OF BODY : ROADSTER
ORDER NUMBER : 0 0 368 00882 DISPATCH : 09 03 1981
PRODUCTION NUMBER: 1703328 PAINT 1 / 2: 480 480
ENGINE NUMBER : 116960 12 007514 _ TRIM : 233
TRANSMISSION NO. : 02 068435 _ TIRES : MICHELIN
HEADLIGHTS : BOSCH
OPTION CODES : 254 256 466 470 502 531 565 570 583 590 640
746
870 871



CODE DESIGNATON
480U MANGANESE BROWN - METALLIC
480O MANGANESE BROWN METALLIC
233A DESIGATION NOT RECORDED
254 BECKER RADIO EUROPA KURIER CASSETTE
256 REAR AXLE WITH LIMITED-SLIP DIFFERENTIAL
466 CENTRAL LOCKING SYSTEM
470 ANTI-LOCK BRAKING SYSTEM (ABS)
502 OUTSIDE REAR VIEW MIRROR, ON THE RIGHT
531 AUTOMATIC ANTENNA
565 REAR SEATS IN PLACE OF LUGGAGE BOARD
570 FOLDING ARMREST FRONT
583 ELECTRIC WINDOW LIFTERS, FRONT DOORS
590 GREEN HEAT-INSULATING GLASS, ALL-AROUND, HEATED REAR WINDOW PANE
640 LIGHT ALLOY WHEELS
746 FOLDING TOP FABRIC DARK BROWN (8023)
870 ELECTRIC SEAT HEATER FOR LEFT FRONT SEAT
871 ELECTRIC SEAT HEATER FOR RIGHT FRONT SEAT

[Gilly]

Well, the 116.960 is the earlier version 380 motor. After 10/81 it was the 116.962 motor, which had decreased HP.
I can see in my info book that there were low compression and high compression 116 motors, but no way to positively identify which was used in the US models, or any other country version as far as that is concerned.
Here is what I do know: On 2 of my sources (a disc and a TDM) they list the HP as either 218 for high compression or 197 for low compression. For the LATER version (116.962) they list 204 for HC or 184 for LC. YOUR car wouldn't be either of these, it is a 116.960, should be 218 or 197.
Here is a little more info from my TDM:
Aussie version, both the 116.960 and 962 lists 197 hp, doesn't say high or low compression, I assume LOW.
Japan version they list 163HP, but mention the engine numbers as 116.960 and 116.963, not 962.
Swede version, no numbers given for the 107 at all, but has a note: "Only those data are given that deviate from the standard specifications".
USA version they quote the 155 HP.
OH, DUH, just found something critical, in the "standard" version engine, the compression ratio for the high compression engine (or "normal" compression I guess you'd say) is 9:1, the low compression is 7.5:1, and in the US version sheet they say it's 8.3:1. But the Jap version is also listed at 8.3:1 but they say it's 163HP, not 155, maybe they ran that without a cat?
Maybe someone knows how to look at the engine and tell if it's high compression or low, I'd be tempted to say it's high, depending on where it was delivered (country).
Very odd MB would have any info on the car here in the US unless it really is a US version car. Can you ask them if they know what the country version is?
Gilly

[kschmitt]

Hello Gilly,

That was the exact next question I sent off to them is to tell me the country of origin that the car was delivered to.

Hopefully, I'll hear back tomarrow on that.

Your engine data is very interesting in that the same engine number can have a number of different configuration, seemingly based upon country of origin.

BTW, did you see the ABS option? I had no idea they had ABS that early.

Saw the car primed last week and saw the new pain on this week. Clear coat goes on next.

I ordered all new molding from K&K as well.

When it gets all together (and I still expect that to be still a couple weeks away), I will post some pictures.

[airedale]

My 380SL is the fastest 155 HP I have ever driven too. It is just amazing. I saw a post here on the forum that by removing ( just drill the rivets out ) the black plastic snorkel on the air cleaner ( which really pipes the air flow down ) could add 20 HP. I did it on mine and notice a definite increase in power with no increase in noise. Restricting air flow like that almost seems like an engineering flaw. You can only take in as much air as your smallest orifice allows and now the intake appears to be about 2 & 1/2 times larger. I bought a piece of flexible door edge guard at Advance Auto Supply to dress up the edge of the air cleaner where the snorkel attached.

[RickM]

Is that snorkel designed to prevent water from getting in? Or to get the coolest air to the intake?

IMO, 20 HP sounds a tad ambitious.

[kschmitt]

Here is the information I received back from MBUSA....

107 045 12 004961 vehicle wholesaled in Munich, Germany

Model: R 107 E 38
Description: 107.045
Production: 02.1980 / 05.1980 - 10.1985

production start-up pre-production series / standard production
- end of production


Specifications

Engine

Combustion principle: four-stroke Otto (with manifold-injection)

Configuration: front, longitudinal; vertical

Engine type: M 116 E 38 / 116.960, from 10.1981: 116.962

Number of cylinders / 8 / 90° V; light-alloy block
arrangement:

Bore x Stroke: 92 x 71.8 mm. from 10.1981: 88 x 78.9 mm

Total displacement: 3818 cc (tax 3776 cc), from 10.1981: 3839 cc
(tax 3793 cc)

Compression ratio: 9.0; from 10.1981: 9.4

Crankshaft bearings: 5

Rated output: 218 hp / 160 kW at 5500 rpm;~from 10.1981: 204 hp /
150 kW at 5250 rpm

Rated torque: 30.5 mkg at 4000 rpm; from 10.1981: 32.1 mkg at
3250 rpm

Number of valves / 1 intake, 1 exhaust / overhead
arrangement:

Valve operation: 1 overhead camshaft per cylinder bank

Camshaft drive: double roller chain

Fuel system: manifold-injection, mechanically controlled (Bosch
K-Jetronic)

Cooling: water cooling / pump; 12.5 l water

Lubrication: pressure circulation lubrication / 7.5 l oil

Electric 12 V
system:

Battery: 66 Ah / in the engine compartment

Generator: three-phase AC / 980 W

Starter: electrical / 2.0 hp

Ignition: transistor ignition

Fuel tank: position / above the rear axle / 90 l; from 10.1981: 85
capacity: l

Fuel supply: electric delivery pump

Chassis and Drivetrain

Frame design: steel unit body

Front-wheel double wishbone
suspension:

Rear-wheel twist-beam axle (semi-trailing arm axle with starting-
suspension: and braking-torque compensation)

Front springs: coil springs, supplementary rubber suspension, torsion
bar stabilizer

Rear springs: coil springs, supplementary rubber suspension, torsion
bar stabilizer

Shock absorber telescopic shock absorbers
front/rear:

Steering: recirculating-ball power steering

Steering ratio: 15.59:1 / 3.3 turns lock-to-lock

Brake system (foot hydraulic dual-circuit brake system with vacuum
brake): booster, antilock system optional; disc brakes front
(internally ventilated) and rear

Parking brake mechanical (foot-operated), acting on rear wheels
(hand brake):

Diameter of brake brake discs front / rear: 278 / 279 mm
discs and/or brake
drums:

Wheels: sheet-steel wheels (light-alloy wheels optional)

Wheel rims: 6 1/2 J x 14 H 2

Tires: 205/70 VR 14

Driven wheels: rear wheels

Drivetrain: divided cardan shaft

Transmission and Performance

Gearing: 4-speed automatic transmission

Availibility: as standard

Shifting: central floor selector lever

Clutch: hydraulic torque converter

Transmission type: planetary gear

Gear ratios: I: 3.68; II: 2.41; III: 1.44; IV: 1.0; R: 5.14

Final drive ratio: 3.27; from 10.1981: 2.47

Maximum speed: 215 km/h; from 10.1981: 205 km/h

Acceleration 0-100 9.0 s; from 10.81: 9.8 s
km/h:

Comments: acceleration by shifting through from 0 - 100 km/h
(2 occupants)

Fuel consumption: 11.1 / 13.6 / 19.0 l; from 10.1981: 9.2 / 11.3 /
14.2 l

by Guideline: 80/1268/EEC: figures apply to 90 km/h / 120 km/h /
urban cycle

[nellotare]

You could check your fuse box and see if the orginal "card" is inside. If you can determine what language is written to identify fuses, then that's a clue to country of destination. My 450slc had euro bumpers, euro headlights, and German card in fuse box.. not necessarily conclusive, but possibly a help.