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  #1  
Old 05-05-2006, 09:36 AM
elau's Avatar
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One touch button for the soft top

I am in no way associated with the company. I have been following his development in the other site and want to share this with anyone who is interested.

In short, he developed a module that can open and close the soft top with just touching the button for one second, or using the key fob. The unit also allows to operate the top while the car is moving at 30 mph.

http://www.pigzmickey.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

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  #2  
Old 05-06-2006, 02:34 PM
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I've thought about developing this feature for my car for a couple of years now and may finally get around to doing it. I believe my design would be a DIY project that anyone could build and install themselves at a cost of under $25. I wonder if LeaUK has given any thought to it, as he has a background in electronics...
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  #3  
Old 05-07-2006, 06:29 AM
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Hi guys

Funny you should mention it as I've been following this thread with interest too.

There appears to be a couple of drawbacks with this design which I'm sure the designer could 'jiggle' - (not wishing to criticise in anyway)

1. Older MBs don't have alarm systems that flash indicators
2. Install complexity - although this is my impression from the post and I have seen no instruction.

For this design I suspect you need just a couple of inputs and outputs which can all be controlled by a simple uC.

I/P

Alarm RX o/p
Soft-top position
soft-top error? - the flashing red lamp in the soft-top push switch
rain sensor? - maybe a little dangerous and probably the reason why MB didn't include it!

O/P

Soft-top control - close/open
Fault indicator


Of course we all understand that businesses like to make a little profit, but I agree with bobterry99 that part cost is potentially rather low as with many electronic modules - the labour in fitting will significantly it.

Any more thoughts on I/Ps and O/Ps bobterry99? Without investigation I'm not sure of what's available.

BTW - other handy electronic gadgets for the R129 would include:

auto partial window down - to assist in door closing (for elder cars)
auto windows up (for elder cars)

Any further thoughts?

Lea
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  #4  
Old 05-08-2006, 08:23 PM
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there is more stuff about it at mbworld, where the guy initially posted stuff

http://www.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=146679
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  #5  
Old 05-09-2006, 08:43 AM
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Source for auto open/close softtop R107

Folks,

I am interested in obtaining a source to retro fit or purchase parts/system to raise and lower the softop electronically on my 500SL r107 .

Can any one assist with information on this subject as I have heard that a few R107's have this system.

Den Downunder 1982 500SL Euro Red.
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  #6  
Old 05-13-2006, 11:19 AM
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I've designed a circuit to automate the rough that I have simulated on a PC with PSPICE. It will be a few days before I get the parts to build it and try it out. Cost: less than $3 for a pair of 3-input NOR gates, some resistors and capacitors.

I will freely share this design with anyone who is interested and would welcome ideas on improvements. However, I don't think I am interested in building completed circuits to sell to others.

Lea: All the I/O is right there at the switch for the top. It's so simple. When the switch to open/close is held long enough for the lamp in the switch to come on, the lamp signal holds the output until the lamp goes off (motion finished). The only part I have not settled on is how to extend the output for an additional 5 to 7 seconds to allow for the windows to close during a closing operation. I'm going to consult a friend on this. My thought is a 555 timer or a simple R-C network.
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  #7  
Old 05-13-2006, 12:09 PM
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anyone know about adding a rain sensor? that would be nifty

does the car have to be running for the top hydraulics to work? ive never tried moving my top with the car off
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  #8  
Old 05-14-2006, 01:59 PM
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dual NORs eh - A uC isn't even needed :-) Nice work...

One suggestion, maybe add a preset to allow for differencies in car window regulators?


Unfortunately there is also another little glitch suffered by some of us. I seem to recall that my roof doesn't always automatically pull the soft-top down enough and the front latches fail to lock. It needs a little gentle persuasion by simply assisting using the soft-top centre hand grip. Makes the whole automation process void if one has to manually assist the roof.

Maybe this can be eliminated by simple adjustment? Any ideas Bob?

BTW - Ihave PCB manufacturing facilities so maybe we could offer this kitted or pre-built?


Cheers
Lea
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Last edited by LeaUK; 05-14-2006 at 02:13 PM.
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  #9  
Old 05-15-2006, 06:12 PM
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No Automatic 107 top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denis gow
Folks,

I am interested in obtaining a source to retro fit or purchase parts/system to raise and lower the softop electronically on my 500SL r107 .

Can any one assist with information on this subject as I have heard that a few R107's have this system.

Den Downunder 1982 500SL Euro Red.
The next generation system is extremely complex and you are better off with the manual top. My mechanic shudders at the thought of fixing the hydraulic actuator for the top. I never heard of a retrofit.
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  #10  
Old 05-15-2006, 07:50 PM
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Rellik: a 1cm-square piece of cloth with a pair of wires clipped to it will work as a rain sensor for the circuit I posted. And yes, your top will work with the key off.

Lea, I might have used a micoprocessor or microcontroller, but I wanted something that anyone could make themselves within an hour or two for very low cost.

A trim potentiometer could be used to tweak how long the output holds for the windows. But I really don't think it is necessary. The hold could be made long enough to accommodate even the slowest of windows, and if it is on longer than necessary for faster windows, nothing is lost.

Regarding the glitch you described, at some point in the mid-90s the top drive was modified slightly to improve the chance of latching. I can't remember the change, though. It is probably very easy to have the automatic operation ignore the fact that the top is not completely latched at the windshield and continue on anyway.

I'm attaching the most recent revision to the design. The diagram shows the most complex circuit: the one for the 1-button remote. For the later 4-button remote, the 4 gates to the left of the diagram are not needed. I wrote-up some descriptions of circuit operation here: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1897471&posted=1#post1897471.

I expect to have the parts to build a prototype in a few days. I still need to work-out the resistor and capacitor values. If you or anyone else has some suggestions for improvements, I would much welcome them.
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One touch button for the soft top-circuit2.jpg  
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  #11  
Old 05-17-2006, 02:39 AM
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Bob

Quote:
It is probably very easy to have the automatic operation ignore the fact that the top is not completely latched at the windshield and continue on anyway.
I'm a little confused as my soft-top will not continue even if I sit and hold the switch forward for ever. The soft-top requires physically pulling downward for the operation to complete; I'm interested in any design change mid '90s if anyone knows?


Regards to your fine design, I've only managed to grab 10 minutes to have a look sorry, but my suggestions/comments would be:

Due to significant automotive noise, switches and considering cable line pick up:

1. Add switch and signal line debouncing (RC - 50 to 100ms) on all input lines
2. Add protection diodes/zenners on all I/Ps
3. Add Schmitt triggers (equiv to 74HC14) to all I/Ps
4. Consider discharge circuit for R1/R2/C1/C2 timing

I'll add a little more tonight.

Cheers
Lea
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  #12  
Old 05-17-2006, 03:51 AM
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Nearly there!?!
Don't forget the remote activation & moving vehicle problems to overcome!
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  #13  
Old 05-17-2006, 03:22 PM
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Welcome aboard pigzmickey - your module seems talk across the forums at the mo!

IMHO I don't think the roof should operate at speeds greater than 10MPH so no need to consider. Also, My understanding is that BT99 has considered remote operation although I'm not sure where the 1 button remote signal is physically derived from.


BT99

If the logic levels are 12V? shouldn't those be 4000 series http://www.standardics.philips.com/products/hef/ - 4011B for the 2 I/P NAND ( 7403) and a 4025 for the 3 I/P NOR (7427) ?
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http://antron.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/i...nature/Sig.jpg

Last edited by LeaUK; 05-17-2006 at 03:44 PM.
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  #14  
Old 05-18-2006, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigzmickey
Don't forget the remote activation & moving vehicle problems to overcome!
Mick, the remote is incorporated into the design already. The four NAND gates at the left of the schematic accomplish implementing a 1-button remote. As for the moving vehicle, nobody has PM'd or emailed me about it. And since I'm not interested in any of this for myself, and I have no intention of selling a product -- I'm just interested in the challenge of the design -- I have not developed a circuit to enable operation while in motion. If anyone asks for it, I'll design it, prototype it, and debug it. I imagine the design would follow along the lines described below.

For safety, the soft top controller receives redundant speed signals from separate sources. When the vehicle is stationary, I believe these are at chassis ground voltage potential. When the vehicle is in motion, an AC voltage is received by the soft top controller, and the frequency of this signal is proportional to the vehicle speed. Now, to implement your feature, it is a simple matter to make the controller see ground potential below 30 MPH and show it the actual speed above 30 MPH. And that can be done by processing the vehicle speed with a frequency-to-voltage converter IC that would have a reference voltage and output a high signal when the vehicle was over 30 MPH and a low signal otherwise. This digital signal would then be AND'ed with the actual speed signal...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaUK
BT99

If the logic levels are 12V? shouldn't those be 4000 series http://www.standardics.philips.com/products/hef/ - 4011B for the 2 I/P NAND ( 7403) and a 4025 for the 3 I/P NOR (7427) ?
Oh absolutley! I noted this on a post at the MBWorld forum. The schematic shows 7400 series because my PSPICE is an evaluation copy that has models for these but not for the 4000 series. DOH!

I got the NANDs from a local electronics store but have had to order the NORs and am waiting for them to arrive. They should be here in a day or two.
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  #15  
Old 05-18-2006, 02:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Gutman
The next generation system is extremely complex and you are better off with the manual top. My mechanic shudders at the thought of fixing the hydraulic actuator for the top. I never heard of a retrofit.
I agree, though I have seen R107s with a retrofit hydraulic system - nothing but a huge headache - the company that supplied the ones I have seen are now out of business in the UK.

The R129 mod sounds interesting!

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