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  #16  
Old 02-14-2008, 08:24 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 47
Thanks Alkraut. I had already found your post and have already bookmarked it. I purchased the guide rail pin puller from ZDMAK (man their site sucks for searching). When it gets here next week I'll get started.

http://www.zdmak.com/wbstore/main.asp?action=PROD&PROD=MK-1712C&CTMP=1

Here's a couple of other posts I found:

http://www.peachparts.com/Wikka/M117TimingChain

Chain Guides Replaced

Anything that will help the job go easier is what I want! I have to say I'm not excited about doing this job. This car is like a giant jigsaw puzzle because I have no decent manual. None of the major manual suppliers published a manual for this model. Sure I have a CD or two, but both give me different specs. Because of this I don't know what to trust. I haven't found a decent/honest mechanic around here either. During my suspension overhaul I brought it to someone locally who is suppose to be "the man" for SL Mercedes to help with the wheel bearing replacement. He did it wrong and charge me an arm and a leg and I still needed to do it right. When I did my suspension overhaul I overtightened a subframe bolt because the specs in my CD manual were wrong. I then got out the other CD and it gave me what I suspect was the correct torque settings, but who knows for sure?

Anyway, if it wasn't for this site the car would probably never see the road again. My wife has already said this car seems to be more of a liability than an investment. I sure would like to prove her wrong.

Thanks
-Tony-
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  #17  
Old 02-14-2008, 08:46 PM
88Black560SL
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 2,854
Excellent post Carson357. I never got around to checking out my 560SL engine before I pulled it but maybe I have the same problem. It you smoke when running on a downward incline.

John Roncallo
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  #18  
Old 02-14-2008, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roncallo View Post
Excellent post Carson357. I never got around to checking out my 560SL engine before I pulled it but maybe I have the same problem. It you smoke when running on a downward incline.

John Roncallo
i am sure that is your problem as well. the very first one i had with this issue the car had to be going down hill. our customer at the time said when he would idle at the mail box his car would smoke really bad we thought he was crazy until we learned it was on a steep hill, we ended up putting the car up in the air on a hoist at rear only to get it to duplicate, when it did i pulled off the hose that goes to the intake to the valve cover with the engine running, and oil went everywhere, was sucking it in very heavy.
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  #19  
Old 02-19-2008, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red560SL View Post
I removed the valve cover successfully. And yes I did need to remove the vac hose at the power brake and it was still difficult to get off. Anyway, the Cam Oiler Tube just fell out.
If you have no damage, you are very lucky and caught it early. My 380SL's oiler tube lifted right off the bearings - unfortunately the PO of the car neglected this and I had to replace a cam and all the cam followers on that side - easily $500 of parts alone, never mind the labor. Even with careful shopping, this cost me $350 and a lot of work.

When you replace the oil fittings, make really certain that the barbs are in all the way - the round part should touch both sides of the "pillow" in the indentation that they fit into on the cam towers.

NEVER remove and reuse these plastic parts. They are good for one insertion only. I wonder how many of these problems crop up from someone removing, "inspecting", and replacing the tubes using the old fittings.
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  #20  
Old 03-08-2008, 04:12 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 47
I ran into a little problem with the right side cam. First I lined up the timing marks on both right and left cam timing marks and the crankshaft timing indicator mark to TDC and made sure the rotor on the distributer was also in correct time. Suprisingly all marks were very close to zero.

Next I marked the "old" chain and old sproket with white paint before losening the cam bolts. I used vice grips to make sure the chain stayed on the sprokets. I first pulled the left side (driver's) cam gear and replaced both guides without a hitch. I then removed the cam gear and held the chain back with wire ties. I then took the old cam gear and placed it on top of the new gear and painted a white mark on the new gear to match. I then put the chain on the new gear and put the gear back on the cam. Worked perfectly.

I proceeded to the right side (passenger). I again marked the cam gear and chain with paint making sure all timing marks were still perfect. I then removed the tensioner and guide rails. Next I removed the cam gear. When I removed the cam gear the cam turned clockwise (see picture) once the gear popped off. I suspect this is because the cam was under pressure from the valve springs. The chain did NOT move as I kept that tight to the cam gear to the crankshaft and left timing marks are still perfect. I tied the chain up with wire ties and set asside. I then replaced the guide rails. Now however I can not place the cam gear on the cam because the cam moved. I need to somehow turn the cam counter-clockwise so I can put the cam gear in the correct position. Does this make sense? How should I do this?

I'm not sure what to do next. Currently I can not place the cam gear on the cam so it lines up with all other timing marks. Once I figure out how to put the new cam gear on in the correct position, I will then continue on and replace the chain.

Any help would be appreciated. Is there a trick?

Thanks
-Tony-
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I'm stumped with my 87 560SL-shift.jpg  
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  #21  
Old 03-08-2008, 04:29 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Palm Bay, Florida
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There should be little stubs in the middle of the cam shaft. I was able to put a vise grip on them to turn the cam shaft back in place. Mine did not jump that much so you might need an extra set of hands.

There is a picture on this site some where but they are pretty obvious when you know where to look.
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  #22  
Old 03-08-2008, 05:42 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 47
GSMITH, you're the man! Super easy and I did it myself. I really appreciate the reply. Now I'll get everything ready for the chain replacement. I purchased the chain loader so I'm hoping things go smoothly.

Thanks a million,
-Tony-
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  #23  
Old 03-08-2008, 06:09 PM
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Glad it worked out.
Could you post a picture of the chain loader in use?
I have not seen one on a 560 yet.
Nothing should slip with the loader but at least you now know how to recover.

Alkruat pictures had the nubs in them.
Timing Chain Replacement on My 560SL
I wish I had bought the pin puller before I started.
I only got 2 out of 6 pulled without it.
Al thanks for the great post.
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  #24  
Old 03-08-2008, 07:00 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 47
Here are some pictures of the chain loader. I purchased from pelicanparts.com for $51.70 (M0037-SIR). This is exactly what SIR Tools sells, but about $10 less than other places I looked. ZDMack wants about $62.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/euro/catalog/shopcart/TOOL/POR_TOOL_MERCED_pg33.htm

I may get to the chain until tomorrow, but I'll post the results when I'm done.

Thanks,
-Tony-
Attached Thumbnails
I'm stumped with my 87 560SL-loader-1.jpg   I'm stumped with my 87 560SL-loader-2.jpg   I'm stumped with my 87 560SL-loader-3.jpg  
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  #25  
Old 03-08-2008, 08:41 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 47
I decided to feed the chain. Here are some pics.
Attached Thumbnails
I'm stumped with my 87 560SL-grind-1.jpg   I'm stumped with my 87 560SL-step-1.jpg   I'm stumped with my 87 560SL-feed-1.jpg   I'm stumped with my 87 560SL-almost-1.jpg   I'm stumped with my 87 560SL-step-2.jpg  

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  #26  
Old 03-08-2008, 08:44 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 47
And she's right on the money! Timing marks on the crank, both sides of the cam as well as the distributor are right no the money. Tomorrow I'll put it all back together and fire her up. Wish me luck.

-Tony-
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I'm stumped with my 87 560SL-right-.jpg  
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  #27  
Old 03-11-2008, 09:37 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Detroit, MI
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Tony, I'm getting ready to do the deed myself and I was wondering if you want to rent or sell your chain loader? You can e-mail me at drjkravis@sbcglobal.net.
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  #28  
Old 03-11-2008, 01:15 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strife View Post
If you have no damage, you are very lucky and caught it early. My 380SL's oiler tube lifted right off the bearings - unfortunately the PO of the car neglected this and I had to replace a cam and all the cam followers on that side - easily $500 of parts alone, never mind the labor. Even with careful shopping, this cost me $350 and a lot of work.

When you replace the oil fittings, make really certain that the barbs are in all the way - the round part should touch both sides of the "pillow" in the indentation that they fit into on the cam towers.

NEVER remove and reuse these plastic parts. They are good for one insertion only. I wonder how many of these problems crop up from someone removing, "inspecting", and replacing the tubes using the old fittings.
Hey Carson357,

I was just wondering if you ever had a problem with using after-market oiler fittings vs Mercedes fittings -- or are they made by the same manufacturer. The reason I'm asking is that I purchased 2 kits from the Benzbin to replace the oiler tubes on my 380sl. However, when I tried to insert them into the holes on top of the camshaft towers, they were way too loose. So, I had to reuse the old ones. Am I running a big risk here, considering that the old ones still seemed to grab fine.

Thanks in advance for the info.
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  #29  
Old 03-11-2008, 01:54 PM
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Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by red560SL View Post
Hey thanks guys!!!!


Here is a parts list I have come up with (with the help of you all here) to complete these repairs:

2 - 161800184 Cam Oiler; Camshaft Oiler Kit; 10mm
1 - 1170501616 Timing Chain Guide/Rail; Clamping Rail/Lever
2 - 1170520916 Timing Chain Guide/Rail; Cylinder Head Inner, Left/Right
2 - 1170520816 Timing Chain Guide/Rail; Left Cylinder Head; 143mm
1 - 1170521016 Timing Chain Guide/Rail; Left Lower Straight Rail at Crankcase; 114mm
1 - 1170501816 Timing Chain Guide/Rail; Right Lower Curved Rail at Crankcase; 115mm
1 - 0009977694 Timing Chain; Double Row 198 Link with Master Link

If you're going to keep the car, get the heavy duty Meyle rubber covered metal rails from the Benzbin. You'll be glad you did, since you don't have to worry about replacing them every 100k miles, when they get brittle and break. There's no comparison! The metal ones were made for these cars!
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  #30  
Old 03-11-2008, 05:52 PM
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Posts: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philoprof View Post
So, I had to reuse the old ones. Am I running a big risk here, considering that the old ones still seemed to grab fine.
Yes, you are. Removing and reinserting them probably caused cracks. The plastic is old and brittle and likely to crack anyway. Every time you start your car, they get hit with a surge of pressure from cold oil. One day they'll go completely and your cams will no longer be lubricated. Hopefully you'll find out before the cam is destroyed.
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