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  #1  
Old 02-12-2008, 07:37 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 47
I'm stumped with my 87 560SL

I've got an 87' 560SL and I am completely stumpped. The engine sounds perfect and is very strong. However, oil appears to be dumping out the exhaust. Here's what's going on.

I start the engine and let it idle for a few minutes. After the engine heats up, a HUGE cloud of blue/gray smoke starts pouring out the exhaust and will continue to do so for as long as I allow the engine to run. The engine still sounds great and idles like a champ. My first test was to start pulling the plugs to see where the oil is coming from. But every plug is clean and dry with no residual of oil anywhere. The firing of the plug (visual inspection) looks perfect.

Does anyone have an idea of how oil could get into the exhaust without any sign of oil being in the combustion chamber? I thought I would try plugging the EGR valve, but that made no difference. I'm at a complete loss on where to start looking or what to try next. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
-Tony-
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  #2  
Old 02-12-2008, 08:11 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 1,114
tony, the first thing i would check, and i have seen this 2 or 3 times in my career as a mercedes tech, is the cam oiler tube retainer plastic on the drivers side cam comes loose at the rear cam bearing, when this happens the oil willshoot straight up, it will travel down the channel in the valve cover and enter the intake via the rubber hose that goes to the intake from the drivers side valve cover.
__________________
1967 250 S
1967 280SE
1968 250S
1971 280 SE
1973 220
1974 280 S
1975 450 SEL
1976 220 D
1979 300SD
1983 300 SD
1985 230 TE euro
1986 280SL
1986 500 SEL euro
1986 190E 2.3
1990 300 SE
2003 C230 K
2004 C230 K
1987 560SEL
1987 300SDL now in canada
2005 C230
1998 C43 AMG Sold to DON
1993 190E 2.6
300TD Former daily driver Totaled
current:
R320 CDI
Ram 2500 Cummins
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  #3  
Old 02-12-2008, 08:14 PM
88Black560SL
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NC
Posts: 2,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by red560SL View Post
I've got an 87' 560SL and I am completely stumpped. The engine sounds perfect and is very strong. However, oil appears to be dumping out the exhaust. Here's what's going on.

I start the engine and let it idle for a few minutes. After the engine heats up, a HUGE cloud of blue/gray smoke starts pouring out the exhaust and will continue to do so for as long as I allow the engine to run. The engine still sounds great and idles like a champ. My first test was to start pulling the plugs to see where the oil is coming from. But every plug is clean and dry with no residual of oil anywhere. The firing of the plug (visual inspection) looks perfect.

Does anyone have an idea of how oil could get into the exhaust without any sign of oil being in the combustion chamber? I thought I would try plugging the EGR valve, but that made no difference. I'm at a complete loss on where to start looking or what to try next. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
-Tony-
Two thoughts

1) All fluids how are they are any going down
2) hows your water temp.

John Roncallo
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  #4  
Old 02-12-2008, 08:24 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 47
Thanks for the suggestion guys. The oil is about 3/4 qt low, but was full. Temp is good also. Tomorrow I will try and locate the cam oiler tube retainer plastic on the drivers side. As you know there are no aftermarket manuals for this car so everything I've done to the car was provided by users of this forum and what little PDF files I have from the shop manual.

Prior to this the engine was perfect and didn't use a drop of oil. Even when I first start the engine the exhaust is clear. I know it is oil coming from somewhere, but I highly doubt it is coming from any internal problems like a dropped valve, hole in the piston or even rings since there is no sign of burning oil from combustion and the plugs are clean. If it were one of these machanical issues I would think you would see the oil burn instantly after you crank it up. Since it takes a good 5 minutes before you see the cloud of smoke (and I mean a HUGE cloud), it can only mean it's burning after the exhaust gets hot enough to burn it.

I'll do my best to find this cam oiler tube retainer plastic on the drivers side and I'll let you all know what I find.

Thanks again for your suggestions,
-Tony-
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  #5  
Old 02-12-2008, 08:33 PM
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Location: San Diego, California
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it is under the valvecover, here is a picture.

http://catalog.worldpac.com/mercedesshop/sophio/wizard.jsp?partner=mercedesshop&clientid=catalog.mercedesshop&baseurl=http://catalog.peachparts.com/&cookieid=2AI145T6N2AR17ZOJW&year=1987&make=MB&model=560-SEC-001&category=A&part=Cam+Oiler+Tube

http://catalog.worldpac.com/mercedesshop/sophio/wizard.jsp?partner=mercedesshop&clientid=catalog.mercedesshop&baseurl=http://catalog.peachparts.com/&cookieid=2AI145T6N2AR17ZOJW&year=1987&make=MB&model=560-SEC-001&category=A&part=Cam+Oiler+Kit
Attached Thumbnails
I'm stumped with my 87 560SL-a635015447cpm.jpg   I'm stumped with my 87 560SL-a634015657oes.jpg  
__________________
1967 250 S
1967 280SE
1968 250S
1971 280 SE
1973 220
1974 280 S
1975 450 SEL
1976 220 D
1979 300SD
1983 300 SD
1985 230 TE euro
1986 280SL
1986 500 SEL euro
1986 190E 2.3
1990 300 SE
2003 C230 K
2004 C230 K
1987 560SEL
1987 300SDL now in canada
2005 C230
1998 C43 AMG Sold to DON
1993 190E 2.6
300TD Former daily driver Totaled
current:
R320 CDI
Ram 2500 Cummins
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  #6  
Old 02-12-2008, 08:49 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 212
The driver side cam cover removal requires a few steps for removal. You first need to remove the air cleaner assembly. Check out the rubber hose connection on it's underside, passenger side. Then remove spark plug wires at the plugs, and move aside or remove. Two fuel lines cross this cover, so you will need to remove one end on each. I removed the forward one at the fuel distributor end, and the other at the firewall by the power brake. Use metric "flare nut" wrenches and keep a towel under to catch some fuel. You might need to remove the vac hose at the power brake, not sure. Remove any rubber hoses from the cover. Look at the hose that runs along the inside of the cover and connects to the injector housings. I removed the hose ends at the 4 injectors so the cover was clear. No fuel here.

There are bolts on the cover. Remove and take off the cover. The oiler tube end that was referred to is on top of the cam. An aluminum hose is between them. I recommend that you purchase replacements, as well as a new cover gasket and cover bolt seals. You should be able to re-use the aluminum tube if you don't bend it. Be carefull when you pry out the plastic connections and check for plastic pieces, as these get brittle. Gentle taps with a rubber mallet allow you to fully seat the new ones (after attached to the tube). These parts are all available from online parts sources, and are not expensive. Be sure to torque the bolts to spec when reassembling the cover. Too much or too little and they could leak. Good luck, I hope that fixes your problem.

Last edited by Alkraut; 02-12-2008 at 08:55 PM.
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  #7  
Old 02-13-2008, 12:37 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 47
I removed the valve cover successfully. And yes I did need to remove the vac hose at the power brake and it was still difficult to get off. Anyway, the Cam Oiler Tube just fell out. Basically it was just sitting there and not really attached with the plastic connections. My guess is that the plastic connections should be holding this tube in place am I right? I guess I need to purchase new plastic connections and gaskets for both sides. Do you really think this could be the problem? And is there anything else I should be checking for while I have these covers off?

The cam (on the driver's side anyway) looks good. The lobes do not show much wear which is a good sign.

Thanks a million for all your help here,
-Tony-

Last edited by red560SL; 02-13-2008 at 07:30 PM.
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  #8  
Old 02-13-2008, 09:02 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Falls Church, VA
Posts: 5,316
Man, did you just dodge a giant bullet and avoid replacing cams and rockers!

If the oiler pieces are shot, then the upper timing chain rails are probably ready to break. If you don't know when they were changed, change them now. And you might as well complete the package with a chain and tensioner.
__________________
Chuck Taylor
Falls Church VA
'66 200, '66 230SL, '96 SL500. Sold: '81 380SL, '86 300E, '72 250C, '95 C220, 3 '84 280SL's '90 420SEL, '72 280SE, '73 280C, '78 280SE, '70 280SL, '77 450SL, '85 380SL, '87 560SL, '85 380SL, '72 350SL, '96 S500 Coupe
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  #9  
Old 02-13-2008, 09:03 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 1,114
here are the parts you will need
116-180-01-84 X2 cam oiler tubes
915035 000016 X8 crush washers at valve cover bolts
116-016-13-21 valve cover gasket Left
116-016-14-21 valve cover gasker right

when you have them off, i would be happy to drive over to chandler and inpect rails etc and assist in re assembly, i am in san diego
__________________
1967 250 S
1967 280SE
1968 250S
1971 280 SE
1973 220
1974 280 S
1975 450 SEL
1976 220 D
1979 300SD
1983 300 SD
1985 230 TE euro
1986 280SL
1986 500 SEL euro
1986 190E 2.3
1990 300 SE
2003 C230 K
2004 C230 K
1987 560SEL
1987 300SDL now in canada
2005 C230
1998 C43 AMG Sold to DON
1993 190E 2.6
300TD Former daily driver Totaled
current:
R320 CDI
Ram 2500 Cummins
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  #10  
Old 02-14-2008, 11:05 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 47
Hey thanks guys!!!!

Carson357, did I hear you right? You're willing to help me out? I'll be more than happy to pay for your gas, your time and a provide bed to rest if you will give me a hand. My biggest problem is not having a decent manual and what I do have is sometimes referenced in German which doesn't translate to English very well.

I inspected the timing chain and guide rails (those plastic guides). What I found is that the driver's side top guide is loose and can be easily moved. On the passenger side the top guide rail is stiff and I am unable to move it. On both sides the bottom rails are stiff and can not be moved by hand. The timing chain appears to be a little loose, but since I have nothing as a reference I can only assume it has stretched some.

Here is a parts list I have come up with (with the help of you all here) to complete these repairs:

2 - 161800184 Cam Oiler; Camshaft Oiler Kit; 10mm
1 - 1170501616 Timing Chain Guide/Rail; Clamping Rail/Lever
2 - 1170520916 Timing Chain Guide/Rail; Cylinder Head Inner, Left/Right
2 - 1170520816 Timing Chain Guide/Rail; Left Cylinder Head; 143mm
1 - 1170521016 Timing Chain Guide/Rail; Left Lower Straight Rail at Crankcase; 114mm
1 - 1170501816 Timing Chain Guide/Rail; Right Lower Curved Rail at Crankcase; 115mm
1 - 0009977694 Timing Chain; Double Row 198 Link with Master Link
1 - 1160160521 Valve Cover Gasket; Left
1 - 1160160621 Valve Cover Gasket; Right
8 - 915035-000016 Valve Cover Grommet Gasket; Valve Cover Bolt Seal Ring; 6x10x1.5mm; Crush Type

Anything here I might have missed?

Questions:

1. I notice from the above parts list there is only one timing chain. Looking at the car I expected there would be one on each side. Since the parts supplier states only one, can I safely assume that this single chain goes between the two cams?

2. What kind of a job am I getting into here? If you look at my other threads you'll see I am not scared to tackle anything on this car:

Rebuilding entire suspension 87' 560SL. Tips, Pointers and HELP!
Rear Wheel Bearings 87' 560SL

but without a manual and specs, I'm not sure how to complete this job.

3. It seems I should replace the timing chain and all rails since I have no idea if any of this work has been done in the past. The vehicle has 140,000 mi on it and I'm sure it would be smart to do this job. If there are any tips or tricks of the trade regarding this work I surely would appreciate it. I am going to search out this entire forum for other posts on the subject as well.

Thanks again everyone,
-Tony-
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  #11  
Old 02-14-2008, 12:10 PM
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sure, i would be willing to help this weekend is my last before i go back to work, the only thing i can think of where you may have issues is pulling the pins for the guide rails and rolling in the new chain, whan do you plan on doing this? what color are the old rails? the chain is one single unit that works for both sides, only other thing i would add to your list is the chain tensioner. the only other thing about your rails is you can only do 4 without removing the front cover. two upper on drivers side, main rail tensioner at passside and upper on passenger side.
__________________
1967 250 S
1967 280SE
1968 250S
1971 280 SE
1973 220
1974 280 S
1975 450 SEL
1976 220 D
1979 300SD
1983 300 SD
1985 230 TE euro
1986 280SL
1986 500 SEL euro
1986 190E 2.3
1990 300 SE
2003 C230 K
2004 C230 K
1987 560SEL
1987 300SDL now in canada
2005 C230
1998 C43 AMG Sold to DON
1993 190E 2.6
300TD Former daily driver Totaled
current:
R320 CDI
Ram 2500 Cummins
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  #12  
Old 02-14-2008, 01:23 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 47
Thanks Carson357! I would certainly appreciate the help.

The color of the old rails is a burnt orange. Looking at the chain and the Camshaft Sprocket/Gears, they don't look as though they are worn much and I'm not sure the if chain is bad either. On the passenger side the chain is tight with no slop at all. The driver's side does have slop where the top tensioner is loose. But to be honest, I have no real way of knowing if the chain needs to be replaced or not.

In order to have all the parts here before the weekend, I will need to place my order within the next hour so they can overnight it to me. In addition to adding the chain tensioner, I have also added both Camshaft Sprocket/Gears as they are fairly inexpensive. I have not placed the order yet and will wait for your reply.

I have attached a picture of the car to this post. Hope you like it.
Attached Thumbnails
I'm stumped with my 87 560SL-87560sl.jpg  
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  #13  
Old 02-14-2008, 01:29 PM
Carson357's Avatar
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 1,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by red560SL View Post
Thanks Carson357! I would certainly appreciate the help.

The color of the old rails is a burnt orange. Looking at the chain and the Camshaft Sprocket/Gears, they don't look as though they are worn much and I'm not sure the if chain is bad either. On the passenger side the chain is tight with no slop at all. The driver's side does have slop where the top tensioner is loose. But to be honest, I have no real way of knowing if the chain needs to be replaced or not.

In order to have all the parts here before the weekend, I will need to place my order within the next hour so they can overnight it to me. In addition to adding the chain tensioner, I have also added both Camshaft Sprocket/Gears as they are fairly inexpensive. I have not placed the order yet and will wait for your reply.

I have attached a picture of the car to this post. Hope you like it.
pretty nice car, the parts that you are going to order sound like what you need. remember the lower rails cannot be done with out the front cover being off, where are you getting the parts from?
__________________
1967 250 S
1967 280SE
1968 250S
1971 280 SE
1973 220
1974 280 S
1975 450 SEL
1976 220 D
1979 300SD
1983 300 SD
1985 230 TE euro
1986 280SL
1986 500 SEL euro
1986 190E 2.3
1990 300 SE
2003 C230 K
2004 C230 K
1987 560SEL
1987 300SDL now in canada
2005 C230
1998 C43 AMG Sold to DON
1993 190E 2.6
300TD Former daily driver Totaled
current:
R320 CDI
Ram 2500 Cummins
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  #14  
Old 02-14-2008, 01:41 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 47
I was thinking about getting them locally from ********AZ at:

http://www.***************/

Or do you recommend I go elsewhere? I have included the full list of parts including the "manufacture" of the part so you can advise:

2 - 1161800184 Atlantic - Cam Oiler; Camshaft Oiler Kit; 10mm
2 - 1160520601 Swag - Camshaft Sprocket/Gear; Double Row at Left/Right Camshaft
1 - 1170520380 ElringKlinger/VictorReinz - Timing Chain Gasket; Chain Tensioner Gasket
1 - 1170501616 Swag - Timing Chain Guide/Rail; Clamping Rail/Lever
2 -1170520916 Swag - Timing Chain Guide/Rail; Cylinder Head Inner, Left/Right;
1 - 1170520816 Swag - Timing Chain Guide/Rail; Left Cylinder Head; 143mm
1 - 1170521016 Swag/Febi-Bilstein - Timing Chain Guide/Rail; Left Lower Straight Rail at Crankcase; 114mm
1 - 1170501816 Swag - Timing Chain Guide/Rail; Right Lower Curved Rail at Crankcase; 115mm
1 - 1160501811 Febi-Bilstein/Meistersatz - Timing Chain Tensioner
1 - 0009977694 Iwisketten (Iwis) - Timing Chain; Double Row 198 Link with Master Link
1 - 1160160521 ElringKlinger - Valve Cover Gasket; Left
1 - 1160160621 ElringKlinger - Valve Cover Gasket; Right
8 - 915035-000016 Fischer & Plath - Valve Cover Grommet Gasket; Valve Cover Bolt Seal Ring; 6x10x1.5mm; Crush Type

I'll send you an email with my contact information,
-Tony-
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  #15  
Old 02-14-2008, 05:29 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 212
I did the job on my 560SL last spring. Maybe these will help.

Timing Chain Replacement on My 560SL

I started the Guide Rail Replacement Project on My 560SL

Good luck.

Al
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