Should I - or shouldn't I - Thinking of buying an SL (450 vs. 280) - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

rgnprof · #1 08-01-2008, 10:38 PM

As some of you know from my previous posts in this forum, I have been contemplating entering the SL world. I have located 2 possibilities (after eliminating a 380SL).

1) 1979 450SL - no pictures, but I may try and post some tomorrow). 92,000 miles but driven very sparingly over the past 15 years. ACC system works and so does A/C, Becker radio - tape player looks messed up. Interior in decent shape, but dash is a total loss (and it's a cap). Drivers door window regulator will need replaced, exhaust system is shot and car stinks - running very rich, cruise doesn't work. Tires are rotted from sitting - may last a little while, but...

Wheels are in poor-fair shape. Body is average - generally paint looks good, but some rust spots and looks pretty rough on the rocker panels and in the wheel wells.

Price - Approx $3000

2) 1981 280SL - odometer stuck on 136,000, but engine runs great - purrs and idles great and cruises along at 65 effortlessly. Transmission slips on the first shift at low speed (not sure if it is from 1st to 2nd OR from 2nd to 3rd - don't know where this car takes off from). If you full throttle it it will slip, but if you accelerate evenly and more slowly, and let off the gas some, it shifts fine. Don't notice any other shifting problems (this is a 722.3xx tranny).

Climate system blows air but not cool - owner (Mercedes mechanic who runs his own shop) says it just needs charged. He converted it to 134a. We'll see...

Body is in great shape - one area with some bubbling on the paint, but nothing underneath, wheel wells, headlights, etc. Really sound paint. Brand new exhaust - all OEM Mercedes stuff from manifold back. Interior in good shape, windows work, car does not have cruise

.

I have enclosed a link to the pictures. I know very little about the SL's and even less about the gray market ones. I know that I can insure the thing a whole lot cheaper though as a classic ($120/yr, and that includes a collision policy with a value of $5500 placed on the car). Didn't see soft top, but owner says it is in good shape (will look at if - and before finalizing deal).

Price - $5500
(I am going to 'deal' with him - if he gets the AC working, $5500, if not, $5000. He was originally asking $6500).

http://s511.photobucket.com/albums/s360/rgnprof/

What do you guys think?

ryan

280sleuro · #2 08-02-2008, 11:56 AM

I don't know what state you live in, but I'm selling my 1985 280SL. Here's the link to the ad I have on craigslist.
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/car/773109700.html

450slcguy · #3 08-02-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgnprof

1) 1979 450SL - no pictures, but I may try and post some tomorrow). 92,000 miles but driven very sparingly over the past 15 years. ACC system works and so does A/C, Becker radio - tape player looks messed up. Interior in decent shape, but dash is a total loss (and it's a cap). Drivers door window regulator will need replaced, exhaust system is shot and car stinks - running very rich, cruise doesn't work. Tires are rotted from sitting - may last a little while, but...

Wheels are in poor-fair shape. Body is average - generally paint looks good, but some rust spots and looks pretty rough on the rocker panels and in the wheel wells.

Price - Approx $3000

Keep looking unless you are prepared to spent many many thousands of dollars on repairs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgnprof

2) 1981 280SL - odometer stuck on 136,000, but engine runs great - purrs and idles great and cruises along at 65 effortlessly. Transmission slips on the first shift at low speed (not sure if it is from 1st to 2nd OR from 2nd to 3rd - don't know where this car takes off from). If you full throttle it it will slip, but if you accelerate evenly and more slowly, and let off the gas some, it shifts fine. Don't notice any other shifting problems (this is a 722.3xx tranny).

Climate system blows air but not cool - owner (Mercedes mechanic who runs his own shop) says it just needs charged. He converted it to 134a. We'll see...

Body is in great shape - one area with some bubbling on the paint, but nothing underneath, wheel wells, headlights, etc. Really sound paint. Brand new exhaust - all OEM Mercedes stuff from manifold back. Interior in good shape, windows work, car does not have cruise

.

Price - $5500

Sounds somewhat better, gotta love that euro. 280 drivetrain. Transmission problem is a real turnoff at that price. Expect to spend another $2000+ if the tranny needs replacement.

Keep looking, you can do better in that price range.

pwogaman · #4 08-02-2008, 12:14 PM

First a disclosure: I have a bias towards the 280SL, as mine was made 429 units off the line after the one you are considering.

Go with the 280SL. There are 450SLs just about everywhere. I would not take the function of the A/C into consideration, only that it has it. Plan of fixing it either way (By the way, the 280SL does not have the condenser cooling fan so I think it is beyond just getting recharged - it never is). Another couple of reasons favoring the 280SL is the ease of working on it yourself and the better mileage. Finally, there is some rarity to the 280SL which should help resale value. The transmission issue could be as simple as a vacuum leak.

Here is the original delivery configuration of the 280SL:

VIN WDB10704212008624
Model 280 SL
Chassis 10704212008624
Engine 110986 12 009223
Transmission 02 010954
Order 0 0 362 00414
Approx. year not defined
Dealer fahrzeug-werke Lueg, Bochum (362)
Interior leather black (231)
Paint
172 anthracite grey metallic (с 01.01.1963)
172 anthracite grey metallic (с 01.01.1963)
Options

260 elimination of model designation on rear lid (с 01.05.1968)

416 hardtop mounted (с 01.02.1963 по 31.10.1980)

420 automatic transmission, floor shift (с 01.01.1963)

466 central locking system (с 01.04.1970 по 31.10.1993)

502 outside rear view mirror, on the right (с 01.01.1963 по 31.03.1983)

535 interference suppression without radio set and automatic antenna (с 01.04.1962 по 31.07.1997)

570 folding armrest front w202/210 stowage box front with armrest (с 01.04.1970)
front folding armrest w202 - housing at front with armrest

585 Behr air conditioner and electric window lifters (front doors) (с 01.04.1970)

590 green heat-insulating glass all round, heated rear window, laminated safety glass - Germany (с 01.01.1972)

600 headlamp wiper/washer (с 01.08.1971)

640 aluminium disc wheels with radial-ply tires (с 01.10.1969 по 31.12.1989)

740 folding top fabric9001 black (с 01.08.1972)

pwogaman · #5 08-02-2008, 12:33 PM

One additional observation, my 280SL is a 1980 and is VIN 009153 and the one you are considering is a 1981 with VIN 008624. That does not seem right.

450slcguy · #6 08-02-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwogaman

The transmission issue could be as simple as a vacuum leak.

Or it could be a total rebuild. Unless the vacuum leak can be isolated before purchasing the car, I'd pass. If it is a simple vacuum leak, an hours worth of investigation would expose it and $5 bucks would probably fix it. If it was that simple, I would think the current seller would have investigated/fixed it before trying to sell it.

rocky raccoon · #7 08-02-2008, 01:56 PM

Frankly, I don't like the sound of either. The 450SL just looks like a money pit. It apparently has not had decent maintenance through much of it's life. I wouldn't touch it.

The 280SL sounds a little better but still has warts. ADSITCO prices rebuilt transmissions at $1800 and used transmissions at about $350. If you are a collector and want your car for occasional use and bragging rights, a case can be made for the 280SL. The out of service odometer would make me itch especially since mileage already displays as sort of high. Since it is a Euro, it will be harder to find parts and harder to get work done that you cannot (or will not) do yourself.

If a daily driver is your goal, the best you can get is a 560SL or alternatively a late 380SL with dual timing chain. Look for maintenance records.

I agree with 450SLGUY. If fixes were simple, the P.O. - mercedes mechanic would have fixed them berfore trying to sell it.

rgnprof · #8 08-02-2008, 03:37 PM

Thank you very much for the replies. I'm not as concerned with the transmission problem - I have an older gentlemen that is a mercedes transmission 'guru'. He thinks the band is shot and his cost to rebuild the transmission is between $850-$900 - if I pull it, which is not a problem.

I am a little more concerned about the A/C and no auxiliary fan. I talked with the owner and he says that it never has had one - at least as far back as he goes with the car (approx. 15 years). I have checked out the Russian page - http://www.detali.ru/cat/oem_mb0.asp?TP=1 - and only one diagram shows a condenser fan. Is is possible that this fan was not part of the original design by Mercedes for European cars?

Can someone explain how/when A/C was installed on this car? He thought this was an aftermarket - or possibly after manufacturing - system. But I don't see how this could be - the York compressor and the dash all look "mercedes".

I am also concerned about the mileage - this guy swears that it's not much higher as he has driven the car very little over the past 5 years. I don't know??? Maybe a carfax would help??

What I really like about the car is the integrity of the body - especially underneath. I can't do body work...

ryan

gswartzfager · #9 08-03-2008, 11:52 AM

On the a/c issue on the 280sl, I can tell you that I have an '85 that my father had brought in. It has been in the family from straight off the boat. The a/c was factory with a York compressor. It does not have a condensor fan (though it has crossed my mind to add one). Mine actually has the automatic climate control which from what I understand is a little more unusual on a euro car. In any event, I can't say for sure that they were none of them came with a condensor fan, but mine did not.

Glenn

pwogaman · #10 08-03-2008, 12:06 PM

I have looked again at my 80 280SL and it appears the condenser fan is after market! I stand corrected.

ctaylor738 · #11 08-03-2008, 06:06 PM

The 450 sounds like a parts car.

The 280 looks tired. I don't care for the spoiler or the wheel well trim. It looks like the vinyl has come off the left kick panel, which is a sign of cowl water leaks - very bad news - so check that out. The AC needs a charge for a reason - it leaks - and that's what should be fixed. You should also find out if the conversion to 134 was done correctly, pressure and temp sensors, and schraeder valve.

The 280 market is really fickle. I think at 5K, needing trans and AC work, and generally tired, you are overpaying.

Be sure to check out the soft top and look for rust around the hatch seal and latch before you hand over your money.

rgnprof · #12 08-03-2008, 08:43 PM

What do you think the car is worth? I have checked out 280SL prices all over the country and $5500 is not bad. Some are asking up to $14,000+ for these cars...I have only found a handful in this price range (actually, I looked at another one in Dallas and the guy was asking $5500 and it wasn't in nearly as good a shape).

I don't think parts are going to be hard to find, or any more expensive than they would be for a USA car. The mileage bothers me as well and I ran a carfax which didn't indicate any concerns other than the mileage issue - odometer has not moved for the last 2 years...

I am thinking of looking at it again this weekend and I called the owner to make sure and have the AC working. And I definitely wouldn't do anything w/o looking at the top.

Part of my problem is that I have become 'sold' on these cars with the M110 motor, especially after talking with a lot of locals - who have nothing good to say about the 380SL's, which is where I started.

If you know of another 280SL for sale somewhere - or if I'm unnecessarily eliminating the 380's, let me know.

ryan

450slcguy · #13 08-03-2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgnprof

What do you think the car is worth?

It's only worth what someone is willing to pay. His $6500 asking is unrealistic. If it was a 5 speed, then maybe, the demand is much higher.

If your really considering it, I'd offer him $4000 cash on the spot.

At this point, the slipping trans. is your friend, play it for all it's worth. If he say's no, tell him you "have to think about" and take a walk. Let him think about it.

In a week, offer $250 more. last offer take it or leave it. Unless he's got some other serious prospects, I'd bet he'll take it.

Ps..... Stay far away from Adisco. They are really, really bad to do business with.

rgnprof · #14 08-03-2008, 09:34 PM

I know he's not going to go for that. He's had the car for sale for 5 years and in that time, I am the second person to look at it - if you believe him. He has the mindset of trying to "recoup" some of his expenses. He is very proud of the "original Mercedes exhaust system - $1800". For whatever reason, he is not in a hurry - OBVIOUSLY - to sell this car.

He is convinced the A/C is not leaking and just needs recharged. Remember, this guy is a Mercedes mechanic with his own shop - when I pulled up, there was a 500SL with the dash completely off and numerous other Mercedes around in the garage.

ryan

450slcguy · #15 08-03-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgnprof

He is convinced the A/C is not leaking and just needs recharged. Remember, this guy is a Mercedes mechanic with his own shop - when I pulled up, there was a 500SL with the dash completely off and numerous other Mercedes around in the garage.

ryan

Take everything he says with a grain of salt. He recoups nothing if it doesn't sell.