Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Mercedes-Benz SL Discussion Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-04-2002, 01:34 PM
domchang's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 236
Having the top end rebuilt on 87 560SL

My 1987 560 SL, 122k miles, went into the shop to have the timing chain replaced, but once the valve covers were off, more damaged was found by the mechanic! Not only the chain but the rails, gears etc associated with the timing chain. He showed me some scoring marks on the valve cover where the chain had apparently been hitting the valve cover and worn some grooves!

He noticed tapping noises coming from the hydraulic lifters so they have to be replaced along with the oil pump, chain etc.

While he's got the engine taken apart he'll also check the valves, cylinder heads and guides I am told.

Estimate is almost $6200 counting labor. I was bummed out but then realized that the tapping noises I'd heard on cold startups would have only gotten worse and required repairs down the road.

Not sure about the valve job but think that its probably related to the hydraulic lifters needing replacement that they need to be checked.

Basically, he tells me that I'll have a brand new engine top end, and that the bottom end of these V8s are damn near indestructible so it'll be like having a new engine on the old girl.

I know that I have to get the timing chain replaced along with associated hardware....but have been waffling all weekend so far on whether to put off the valve job and the lifters....any opinions out there?

The car was seeming running smooth and strong before I took her in for the timing chain replacement....no smoke going downhill, getting 16-17mpg, great acceleration.

thanks in advance

__________________
D. Chang
Network Integration Engineer
MCSE, CLP, CCNA
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-05-2002, 12:46 AM
Tom McMenamin's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Orange Park Florida
Posts: 365
Hey Dom...

How about giving us a rundown on the noises, performance, characteristics you observed prior to feeling you needed to get someone to check out the car!

A good description might help the rest of us poor SL owners to diagnose prior to major problems!

Thanks!
__________________
1988 560SL
Black Pearl/Palamino
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-05-2002, 09:58 AM
domchang's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 236
no real symptoms beyond a slight tapping noise at cold startup which turned out to be top end components of the engine being put to work with little to no oil on them to lubricate matters. I think it was mainly the hydraulic lifters.

Once oil got up to the top end the tapping would go away and all would be sounding great again.

Took it in due to my readings of this forum and other sources that highly recommend the timing chain be checked for slackness and damage around the 100-120k mark before it actually breaks and takes the engine with it.
__________________
D. Chang
Network Integration Engineer
MCSE, CLP, CCNA
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-05-2002, 05:26 PM
larrysiny
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Hi Dom,
Performance products sells rebuilt heads for the 560 for around $800. Sounds a lot cheaper than the $6000+ you were quoted.
Larry 86 560 sl
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-05-2002, 08:47 PM
Mark Herzig's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 380
if you haven't committed yet, stop the press!! I agree with Larry that a Metric rebuild is a much more cost effective way to go. Also, you describe the car as pretty functionally OK prior to taking it in to the mechanic...

I think 122K miles is premature for a top end rebuild however if the car has not been maintained ( oil changes neglected or overheating ) then that may not be the case.

I know the feeling very well. You want your car to be RIGHT. Money is secondary however, having been there and done that, I've gained the perspective to not commit on one opinion. Get a second opinion if it's not too late otherwise, forget what I've said and enjoy knowing you basically have a new engine.
__________________
Mark Herzig
1995 E300D 153K
1985 300D 142K (sold)
1979 450SL 122 miles (sold)
1992 500E 127K (sold)
1987 300SDL 132K (sold)
1986 300E 161K (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-05-2002, 09:32 PM
BlackE55
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I agree with Mark. Unless something is terribly wrong, like excessive oil use, smoking, cracked heads etc. -- I'd leave the heads for now. Timing chain/guide rails isn't a bad idea...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-06-2002, 10:37 AM
domchang's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 236
thanks for all the feedback.

the car did have some oil seepage in the oil pan gasket which apparently would have required a lot of work to get at...and it'll be part of the overall rebuild.

and yes, I want to the car to be right....however the car engine is halfway taken apart now, too late for a second opinion.

my quandary now is whether to just tell them do the hydraulic lifters and the timing chaing and hope for the best re the valves.
__________________
D. Chang
Network Integration Engineer
MCSE, CLP, CCNA
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-06-2002, 02:38 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Gig Harbor WA.
Posts: 69
My 560SL has about the same mileage as your car and I just had my timing chain, tensioned and upper rails replaced for a cost of about $550. I still have some valve clatter and I plan to replace a couple lifters and rocker arm's sometime this summer.

If your cam looks good I would just consider doing the chain,rails and tensioner and any lifters and rocker arm's that are bad. Lifters are about $25 ea. and rockers are about $14 ea. and are easy to replace. I can't imagine it adding more than 3 hours of labor to the chain replacement. If you are useing oil you might consider valve guide seals also but only if you burn more that 1 qt in 1500 mi. $6200 seems like a lot of money unless the heads need to come off and at 122,000 miles I doubt the valves are burnt or that the valve guides themselves are that bad.
Good luck
__________________
Hud

88 560SL
97 E320
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-06-2002, 05:44 PM
domchang's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 236
just talked to the mechanic and they've got the heads off the engine and want me to come by to take a look, something about the exhaust valves being worn....

sigh...
__________________
D. Chang
Network Integration Engineer
MCSE, CLP, CCNA
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-06-2002, 10:17 PM
domchang's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 236
well, they showed me the exhaust valves and there was definite play in them as well as evidence of wear/damage due to the play along the valve shaft...I forget the name of the sleeve they ride in but those have to be replaced as well. The play and wear on the valves were causing me oil loss and power loss.

they will also replace all 16 hydraulic lifters.

the timing chain gears were worn down and scratched at several points as well, apparently it had been only a matter of time before the chain would have flown loose and probably damaged the engine in a massive way! The chain guides had actual grooves worn into them from the chain. The gears around the drivetrain shaft were worn as well and will be replaced.

engine mounts are shot, and will be replaced.

several assorted hoses were old and brittle and to be replaced.

the rocker arms were fine, a bit worn but not through the hard outer layer.

the only bright spot is that they showed me the almost new condition of the engine's bottom end...as they'd said before, the things are virtually indestructible.

so I told them to go ahead and do all the work they're recommending, it's only money right?

I look forward to the "new" engine at the end of this week. I had been happy with the performance of the engine before and the mechanic mentioned several times how it'd be a night/day kind of performance difference.

The fact that I'll be able to let the RPMs go past 4000 will be something new for me as well. : )

thanks again for all the feedback, it let me ask the questions I asked and look for the right things to be said back to me in return.
__________________
D. Chang
Network Integration Engineer
MCSE, CLP, CCNA
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-06-2002, 10:49 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Baton Rouge
Posts: 485
Timing chain replacement , that includes both upper rails on drivers side , upper and tensioning rail on passengers side, chain tensioner and oil rail kits is 5.6 hours labor. To remove heads for valve job, doing chain and rails, lof, is right at 22.4 hours. I am doing a 380 sl chain conversion now in my spare time and replacing entire fuel system and that job only runs 6200.00 So 6 grand is kinda high sounding , you might want to see what time they are charging you.
__________________
euro 287
Mercedes Technician 7 Years (retired to Hyundai)
2000 Dodge Durango
98 Mazda truck
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-10-2002, 09:00 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 326
Given the cost of the rebuild, I'm surprised anyone would go through with it. You have my sympathies.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-10-2002, 09:42 PM
Mark Herzig's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 380
Dom;

Please excuse this comment because I do not want to invoke "post decisional regret" with you! However there is something interesting I would like to know.

A gentlemen on the forum raised a good question about why not buy a rebuilt Head from Metric vs. doing a "Custom" rebuild?

THe cost of the rebuild heads is around $700. The custom rebuild is much higher I'm speculating because of the economy of scale issue. However, there must be some benefits to a custom rebuild like convenience and assurance that everything is done crrectly. And especially, having some "face" to take responsibility in the case of something going arwy.

If a rebuild head the same as a top-end rebuild?
__________________
Mark Herzig
1995 E300D 153K
1985 300D 142K (sold)
1979 450SL 122 miles (sold)
1992 500E 127K (sold)
1987 300SDL 132K (sold)
1986 300E 161K (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-11-2002, 10:05 AM
domchang's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 236
not sure what rebuilding the heads entail, I would assume it means actually replacing the heads which house the valves and associated hardware. This is not being done on my car.

They are replacing all the intake and exhaust valves and associated hardware, hydraulic lifters and such.

I would have had the car back last night but a $2 spring that is part of the oil pump chain tensioner broke (apparently a rare thing) and they could not get the part in before Monday due to incompetence on the part of their parts supplier. so they could not start the assembly of the engine as planned. That bummed me out to no end.

I'll post a complete list of work done. If I remember correctly it's almost 3k in parts and the rest was labor.

It's only money right?
__________________
D. Chang
Network Integration Engineer
MCSE, CLP, CCNA
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-15-2002, 11:14 AM
cdunne
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
If you feel the techs working on your car are the best people for the job and that they will stand behind their work then it is money well spent. I spent in the neighborhood of $4000.00 after which the car still did not run correctly. I was heartbroken the car is a 73 450SL that my grandfather purchased new. He LOVED this car and so do I. I have had the car for almost a decade and to this day it has not run well enough for me to enjoy it. I got burned and that made me gunshy about getting the car worked on but still I could not bring myself to part with it. If I had of found the right people to work on the car even if they cost more I would have been better off. With the help of this forum I think I have solved the cars problem. I am waiting for a Crane ignition conversion kit that corrects the faulty trigger point controls that came on my car. Hopefully if my brother in law and I can do the install tonight my car will be running tomorrow!!

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page