380 or 560 Question

Today I was looking at what I was told is a 1985 380-SL. However, the badge reads 560 SL, there is a factory installed alarm system and phone. I'm a bit confused... anyone possibly shed some light on what the deal is? I will greatly appreciate any and all feedback. Thank you.

W

The 560 only came out in 1986 but I have seen several earlier models where the owner for some reason changed the badge.
Just a glance at the engine from a fairly good MBZ mechanic and he can tell which engine it is. If my memory serves me correct the 380 is a noticably more narrow engine than the 560. My 82 380SL has a 560 engine and trans and at a LA GTG this past summer we were comparing to another 380 parked by me. The man who knew all the differences was Mike Tangas. You might email him.

Rayson, Thanks much for your reply. I'll follow up on your advice since 1) the car is in very good condition and 2) I want to purchase it.

W

Is the SL from a dealer or an individual? No matter which ask a lots of questions. Be sure to ask if it has a single or double timing chain. If single think more about it. If double ask if they have documentation that it is double. Single chain can be big problems, check out entrys on this forum to read about this. Also if the speedometer is original 380 it should only go to 80 miles per hour but that could have also been changed. You did not mention price but what I did when I bought mine was to decide what I was willing to give and begin to make offers until I got it where I was willing to pay. Of course mine looked, ran and even smelled bad but I got it real cheap and since last Feb. have been working on it myself to where now I have what I would call a decent 380SL. Also it is not my only car and is not my daily driver which probably should be considered. But it is my second favorite
car of my life. The favorite being a 64 Corvette when I was 21 years old. Since then I have owned probably 20 cars. I really enjoy my SL and intend to have one from now on. Next project for mine is a new soft top next week.

Hope this has not been to much for you with all these ramblings from an old guy who bought his first SL on Valentines Day 2002 and has been having a love affair ever since.

Have a great New Year and hope it starts out for you in a great car, MBZ SL.

Just an after thought to my last thread. I believe that I recall that MBZ had changed to the double chain sometime earlier but would not hurt to check to make sure of this.

. . . but here are some clues to look for in determining what it is:
1) a 380SL is 107.044, but the 560SL is a 107.048 (I'd think one or the other number should be on an underhood or door jamb plate)
2) 380SL cam covers are silver/aluminum color with raised longitudinal lines, 560SL cam covers have the same lines, but are black
3) a 380SL's air cleaner snorkel ends about even with the front edge of the cam cover, but a 560SL's air cleaner snorkel goes all the way to the radiator support (it has a rectangular funnel that bolts over a hole in the support for fresh air)
4) a 380SL's distributor is 3-4" in diameter; a 560SL's distributor is more like 6" across.

I imagine one of these is true:
- the PO only changed the 380SL badge to a 560SL badge, or
- the PO also swapped engines (in which case cam covers would black, whether he put in a 560SL engine or the more powerful one from a 560SEL).
- the PO not only changed the badge and engine, but also perhaps the air cleaner and/or ID plates.

Assuming the ID plates were not altered, the VIN would provide more info, but I don't know what was made within what VIN range.

I've also read that 560SL bumpers are closer to the body and perhaps have different side bumpers as a result, and there are probably differences in the interior and options, but I don't know what.

For price negotiating, point our each inconsistency to the seller as a reason to reduce the sales price from the "book value" even though you may be happy with the alterations once you buy it.

Since you're local (Seattle), drop me a private email with your phone number if you'd like me to share pictures I've collected of the differences or get together - either to play buyit/don'tbuyit (a derivative of goodcop/badcop) in your negotiation, or if you get it.

By 1985, all 3.8 v8's had a double-row timing chain. Assuming the engine is original to the car, you should be okay on that account. Of course, the engine should be evaluated to determine if the timing chain/guides/tensioner need to be replaced in any event.

A pre-purchase check by a good independent tech or a Mercedes dealer would be a few hundred very well spent. Don't fall in love with the car just yet.

All tips and advice has/is very much appreciated. I'm going to give it another "look" on Thursday. From what I can remember... from when I last looked at the car: Is that the speedo went to 160 mph, 95K miles, original owner is in So. California, factory alarm system, factory(?) installed phone, near new tires all around, new front brakes, 70% rear brakes, original tool kit, kind of an off black colored body with a grey interior and they're asking 12K. All the electrical works as it should, switches don't seem to show too much of their age... but do a little and the soft top looks to be brand new and fits/works well. Has parking lot dings and several scratches. The hard top shows dings and scratches as well. Both the interior and boot don't have a single indication of ever having suffered from the damp. Double chain is supposed to have been on these beginning in '84.

I'll be paying more attention to the motor when I look at it again. Thanks again,

Walt

Both 380SL and 560SL speedos "go to" 160, but the latter also has a few tick marks past the 160 and the highest kph is 260, where the 380SL's highest kph is 240. Neither car will go anywhere near there, so those differences are purely cosmetic.

If you still have time, though, take a good long drive in the 380SL (and in a couple of early '70s 450SL's and a 560SL or two for comparison) before you buy - city, freeway, hills, stop'n'go, . . . the whole shebang. Assuming the one you're lusting after is a 380SL, it is the slowest of all years with that body style. Some drivers won't care, they mosey anyway, but a lot of new 380SL owners post on this Forum and others with the same frustrated question: "How can I significantly improve the performance of this car for a few hundred dollars?" Sadly, the answer is "No way." Significant improvement starts at a couple thousand, so make sure it has enough passing reserve, pep up hills, etc., for the way you like to drive.

I drove a half dozen 107 SLs before buying one. Those in the $6-8k range (as high as I could go without taking on monthly payments) smoked, or had rust, so I kept looking. The '72 I eventually bought a year ago cost me a little over $4k, and I'll be putting another couple $2-3k and several hundred hours of my labor (mostly sanding off a bad paint job before repainting) to get it where I want it. That works for me because I just retired in August, and I want a play car, not an original - YMMV.

One valve cover is black and the other aluminum. What does that indicate?

Walt

Two different valve covers means - Use Extreme Caution when evaluating this car!

They surely didn't come that way, so what's the deal? And what else might have been replaced (for what reason)? At the very least it shows that some previous owner didn't have, or refused to spend, the $50-100 it might have cost to get a matching cam cover . . . that tells me he's a corner-cutter. Would a guy like that have changed the oil - ever?

If there are no repair records, I'd only be interested at a VERY low price. In other words, assume the worst: that the engine was bodged and will need to be replaced. What's it worth then? That's what I'd offer (about $5k less than you think it's worth if the engine was original and in good condition).

But I could be wrong.

Thanks for your reply MD. Since my last post, I took the car to a mercedes mechanic with a good reputation and he said that the car is in very sound condition and that's it a bit of a mystry to him too excepting, that the top end has been done and that perhaps the other cover had been lost or stolen. The only thing discovered was a very slight amount of oil seepage from the lower rear corner of the right head. He said that it is common to see such on 380 motors and that yes... it is a 380... even he found no reason for the 560 badge.

So, I'm happy and will buy the car. I really do think though, that I'd be laughed at about the time I offered 5K! But who knows?

Walt

Hey Walt,

Curiousity is a killer. Just wondering did you get the SL or are you still looking?

Rayson, I got the car and... am happy... thank you. Tips, pointers and suggestions appreciated.

W

Waltere,

Congrats!! May you enjoy your SL as much as I have mine. When questions or the occasional problem arises this forum is the greatest. My latest project is to install a new soft top.

Ray