1990 300SEL- have good engines? 85 380SE (require chain replacements?)
 

Before reading this original thread, read the last "updated" thread.... as this original thread was typed 5 years ago.... LOL.




I am not sure what all years this engine was used, but I am wondering if these are good engines in these cars. I am considering a very nice local 1990 300SEL, with 99K original miles- 1-owner, ALL records available for $4900.

I am guessing it is an inline 6-cylinder? Do these engines also require timing chain replacements like the V8?

Can someone verify this- someone with a 85 380SE I am interested in said that the 85' and older engines do not require timing chain replacements like the 86+ V8s do. Is this true?

Thanks!!

The 85 380 Sel will have a double row tining chain witch is not as likely to break as the single row in the earlier 380,s but the double row still needs to be dhecked for strecth and the uppper guides checked and probably changed if the car has over 100 k on it, all timing chains wear out over time...............

William Rogers.........

Thanks William. What about the 90 300SEL engine? Do you know if they are
basically "trouble free" engines? This car has 99K. I think it is an inline 6-cylinder.

The 300SEL uses the M103 six cylinder. It's the same engine as found in the 300E of that vintage. A very good, solid, smooth engine. There are two or three minor troublesome areas with the M103. Some of them do occasionally need a head gasket replacement. Oil leaks around the timing cover are somewhat common. And finally, the valve seals tended to wear early, resulting in much oil burning and blue smoke. This last one almost certainly has been addressed already. If it hasn't, probably best to avoid the car - burning oil for extended periods will cause other damage.

That's about it for the M103. The timing chain lasts a very long time - at least 200K miles in a reasonably cared for engine. Other than head gasket replacement, the engine should not require any mechanical work unitl it is past 200K miles. At that point a valve job may be required. Oh, the water pump is a pain in the knuckles to replace!

You can try searching for discussions on 300E engine problems for more info. The 300SEL (and 300SE) are somewhat uncommon, so you won't find too much past discussion about them here. Just be careful not to confuse issues with the M104 used in later 300E/E320 cars with the M103 used in the 300E from 1986-1992.

The 300SEL isn't exactly going to be a hotrod. It's a large, heavy car. The 3.0 liter six makes reasonably power, but only at high RPM. And the transmission probably starts in second gear. It ain't exactly going to pin you to the seat leaving stoplights. :)

- JimY

If it is in good shape go for it! An I6 in a W126 gives you a lot of room to fix things. If you can live with a slower car than the V8's, their great cars. The 300SEL's also seem to get worse mileage than the 420's.

Thanks, despite the heavy rain here today, I stopped and took a quick (but closer) look at the car a little while ago around 6:00. I thought it was a 300SEL, but it is a 300SE (shorter wheelbase)- which is OK with me. It has 114K miles (I thought he said 99K, but I was wrong). It is in beautiful condition, but needs detailed. The interior condition reflects the mileage. I told him I would come back on Saturday and take a closer look at it - supposed to be sunny that day.

Thanks again.

They didn't import many short wheelbase W126's, they are rare. If it is in good shape it would be a good buy, just have a few grand set aside to deal with the usual old Mercedes issues.

Interesting. I thought it was odd that it was a shorter wheelbase model. Still a large car though. I wonder how much difference in the ride quality is between the 300SE and 300SEL?

Well ride quality is subjective, I think my W126 rides hard but it handles well for it's size. It will definitly ride harder than an American/Japanese luxury car.

They imported 2,400 give or take 350SD's I don't know how many 300SE's came to this country but if I had to guess under 5k.

Thanks for that information Hatterasguy. I am hoping that this one has a soft and supple ride. At any rate- I am going to go take a closer look at the 90 300SE tomorrow to make an assessment. He initially said he wanted "around" $4900 for it, but I am not sure at this time. He really does not even seem that motivated to sell it. He owns the car lot, but he is driving the car daily and keeping it parked behind or to the side of the building. He said it was his wifes car, but he bought her a newer S-Class sedan and he has been driving the 90 SE. My uncle that has the 89 300 wagon (also with the 3.0L I6), said these engines are bulletproof. At 161K, his has been totally trouble free. Thanks again.

Also- forgot to ask- when/if I go drive this car tomorrow- how should the transmission properly shift? I have driven the 300SD's and know they can be harsh. Should the transmission in this 300SE be as silky smooth as the transmission in my 90 Lexus LS400, or should it be even more noticable on this 300SE? Thanks!

the '88 > W126 had firmer shocks than the earlier S class sedans , so the ride is noticeably firmer .. but that just means the car sits nicer on the road at 100 :D

Hi 86....

I owned a 300SEL and it was a great car, unfortunately its life was cut short by a bad driver. The engine bay is huge and you can do all sorts of work without much worrying. The oil filter is a spin on located in the back and easy to get to..

My advice is to look at the front of engine for any oil. They are known to have some oil leaks up at the front, and its only a minor problem. However, you might be able to use it as a bargaining tool when it comes to buy. If the car is in great shape.. i guarantee you will like it.

Hello,
I can only agree with the other posts that a W126 300SE is a bomb-proof car, aside from normal wear items it should be trouble free. My friend in Raleigh has a 1990 300SE and I drove it down to Charleston and back in a day, cruising at or near 100mph all the way :D :D
It needed the lip seal at the front timing cover, exhaust manifold gaskets(DIY) and the valve stem seals(shop)replaced and routine maintainence :)
There may be a *clonk* in the driveline when shifting from P to D or R, but I was told by indies that it is the rubber mounts for the differential as the facelift W126s have a completely rubber bushed mounting for the diff, earlier cars having a solid mount. You could perhaps use this as a bargaining point :p
Have a good week.

Their is no right way a W126 should shift, you can adjust them to shift as hard or soft as you want. But you should feel every gear. As far as ride goes, German cars ride harder than luxury American cars. But they handle much much better. ie no large barge floating down the road feel.

Well, where do I start.... well, first- thanks for the additional information and replies.

I went to look at the car today and the owner provided me with more information. Seems as if the car was "losing" oil somewhere, but no leaks or smoking. He said he had it checked and they said that the #5 and perhaps the #6 oil rings were "sticking". He said they told him either install new rings, or add some Marvel Mystery oil to the engine oil. He said he also added some sort of "sea foam" additive. I have heard of this but really not familiar with it. Anyway- as soon as he mentioned that, I really lost a lot of interest in the car. He said he has driven it 300 miles since he added the oils and no oil loss- so far. :rolleyes: He also said it started "misfiring" a while back and he installed new plugs and wires and it seemed OK now- and not sure that this means, but he said he was checking them and they all seemed to be "breaking in" good.... :confused:

I did not even start the car, but he also said it had a moderate exhaust leak. Records were not all there either like I thought. Mainly most recent receipts, including one at a local Mercedes repair shop that stated owner complained of "vibration" when turning at low speeds- which he did admit that it still does. Despite this, it is still a very nice car appearance wise- original paint gleams. It needs cleaned - such as a wash and vacuum, but there are no tears or stains. Car also has new tires. We was also talking about transmissions and he mentioned that on this car- when the car is first started in the mornings, you might as well wait before you leave, because the transmission did not "want" to shift, until it was warmed up. I was becoming more and more leary of this car. After this, I did not even want to drive it. He did however say that he would take $4000 for the car, rather than the $4900 original price. $4000 seems good, considering that it what I paid for my 90 Lexus with 224K last year, but it does not have the oil problem, or exhaust leaks. With that said- I guess me search will resume.

Thanks again for all of the replies.

It is an old car it won't be perfect, I know of a few "perfect" W126's that sell in the mid to low teens. Those cars are know to have weak valve stem seals, not an expensive diy repair. A quart of oil every 600 or 800 miles is within spec for that motor. Have a shop do a leak down test, as long as the oil was changed I doubt the bottom end is going south. If the body is clean and the interior is nice, another $3k and a little work and you will have a real nice ride. For $4k it sounds about right.

Thanks for the reply. One quart of oil every 600 to 800 is normal for these engines? I do not know if I could get used to that. I guess I have been "spoiled" by my 1990 Lexus LS400 not using ANY oil between the 3000 mile oil changes- which still amazes me. I really like this Mercedes- because like I said- the body and interior are perfect, but its just what he said about those valves "sticking" concerns me. I just hate paying $4000, then have to pay $3000 more for a rebuild. He did say he would like to get $4000 when I asked the price again, but I suspect he would take $3500. When he said $4000, he said that he should be able to clean it up a little and get at least $3500 for it at the local wholesale auction. Would I be better off looking for a $5000 model, not requiring possible engine work? I also heard a few "changed" stories about this 90 300SE- which makes me even more leary. I may take your suggestion if I cannot locate another soon and have that "leak down" test done to it and let the mechanic look it over.

I located a fairly local 88 420SEL in VGC for $1999, but this low price has me suspicious. The owner said it runs perfectly and I have seen several photos of the car and it looks very nice- NO rust, excellent interior. If I could just make the time to make the 4 hour drive to inspect it. I guess I will just look around and not make any hasty decisions. Thanks again.

Do a search their has been a lot of disscusion on the 103 (I think) I6 that is in that car, they have a weak valve stem seal's that often cause's really high oil usage. You could probably replace them for under $300 yourself. When I said $3k worth of work I wasn't talking about a rebuild, I was refering to bringing an old W126 up to speed. Long block's are in the $6k range.(I think) That 420SEL could be a nice car but remember perfect ones go for for $8k+ so if you get it for $2k it will need work. If the body looks good and a shop does a leak down text and the engine checks out $3,500 is a good price. Storeis would make me want to walk though, mileage could be 300k it could be a roll back. You never know with people.

Thanks. That is what I was thinking. The changing stories made me suspicious. Granted, he did not have to tell me about the oil consumption problem, but since he did, it leads me to believe that the car may have an even severe problem than I thought, so it would not be a big suprise when the car did start using excessive oil. Yes, if $300 would fix this for sure, that would be OK. He did say that since he added the Mystery oil that the car had not used any oil within 300 miles. He also mentioned a "bad" exhaust leak, and if these are anything like Lexus cars, the exhaust can be very costly. I think too it is possible that it may have had a rolled back odometer, but not 100% sure, because the body and interior was in excellent, excellent condition, but that really does not mean anything. You may be right about the $1900 420SEL. At that price- there has to be something wrong with it, unless the owner does not know the true value of the car. :confused: Thanks again.

The owner knows the value. Here is an idea find a perfect W126 for sale around you and take a look at it. The W126 is really a nice car when it is fully sorted. I am just getting to that point with mine, a 560 or 420 would probably be an extremly quit car inside, they handle awsome(for their size) not to mention the brakes. Exhuast's are not to bad probably well under $1k for a complete new one. (I think). Compared to my Toyota or my moms Olds the Mercedes feels alive, it is truly a joy to drive.

This statement I have learned the hard way is extremly true, all of my future purchase's will be guided by it:
"the most expensive Mercedes is a cheap one" Buy the best one you can afford with a complete service history. With one or two owners, no accidents, stories etc. Then have a good mechanic go threw it front to back top to bottom.

I know this is a OLD thread, but wanted to kinda update on my history here...

Its funny, I was going back and reading some of my old posts from years ago (including this one) before I bought a MB and how I was so hesitant.... some people were even getting rude at times, agitated that I would not buy a Mercedes, but since then I have owned THREE Mercedes (bought one for $900, 85 380SE, one for $1800 84 190D and the one I own now for $2000 88 300SEL) and never have had one major issue with any of them. I did have a stalling problem with my '85 with 280K, but sold it for about what I paid for it, so that was good. Then my little 190D was a super car, but I needed a bigger Benz... that car seemed like it would go forever mechanically. My current 300SEL has also proven to be a good car. I remember years ago when I wanted one I was kinda scared off by the oil consumption and headgasket issues that plague some of the M103s, but either my car has not had the problems yet, OR it has already been repaired, because at 156K, it dose not leak or burn not one drop of oil. I have only put 2500 miles on it since I have bought it, but the oil level always stays on full and the oil stays clean. I feel I got a good car for $2000. The paint is still good, interior is nice, but has the typical dash cracks, transmission shifts perfectly, cold A/C and everything works (I hope I am not jinxing myself). lol. Aside from squeaking brakes (posted in another thread) the only issue I can think of is a seeping EHA valve, which I am addressing soon at the local MB shop when they get time to do it. All in all, I am very happy with this car and glad I held out for a LWB model... really had wanted a 86-87 300SDL, but this car is fine. Alot of people said that the LWB 300SEL is no power house and its true, but this car is plenty powerful for me. I normally only drive this car on my days off or vacation and never in a hurry. I have never even had to take it over 3200 rpms for that matter and normally keep it under 3000 rpms.

I still have my Lexus LS though (giving to my mother), which has actually turned out to be more of a money pit than ANY Mercedes I have owned. The fan bracket bearing went out, costing me $350 and now I am in need of motor mounts on the Lexus which are about $100 each and $200 labor AND valve cover gaskets, about a $300 job on a LS400 and a leaky PS pump which is very common on older Lexus'. After that, it should be good to go another 220K. ;) Mechanically its a fine car too. 220K and everything still works, burns and leaks NO oil and tranny shifts flawlessly.

Anyway, here is what I have ended up with 5 years later... 1988 300SEL (156K miles) - I took this about a week ago around April 20th
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...photos/006.jpg


Thanks for all of the advice over the past 6 or 7 years I have been on here. :)