Purchase advice needed, AGAIN!! - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

braverichard · #16 10-27-2004, 08:02 AM

At first I was going to buy the 560SEL, but then the dealer has been taking his time with repairing/replacing the punctured tire. So, after considering that my 500SEL still needs waay too much work for me to be considering another piece of German metal, I've decided not to buy anything else until the 500SEL is in great shape.

Currently tackling the climate control / blower motor issue...

Thank you all for your help. I've definitely learned a lot on how to choose between two such cars next time!

DaveL · #17 10-27-2004, 06:27 PM

I purchased a 560sel a couple years ago - $1400, ratty condition (paint looked good, interior worn, most things working, some things not working...), engine running rough with no power, rear end sagging or bouncing.

I had to put $500 into front suspension, and another $500 to get the motor running properly, but from that point it drove great. It still needed lots of little things, and a few big ones, but I didn't worry about it and just drove it until it broke (about 25,000 miles from when I bought it).

Some would consider my experience to be less than positive, however it was my first venture into MB ownership, and even a ratty 560sel can be a wonderful car. There is (almost) nothing like it from 50-100mph on the freeway. If you would have told me that I would settle into thinking a heavy 4 door with an automatic was my car of choice, I would have laughed.

Now, I've "upgraded" to a very nice 500sel w140. While this car is a serious refinement from the 560, if I could get a 560 in mint condition, I'm not sure that I wouldn't rather have that...

I agree, $2500 sounds like a lot for either car (150k mi+ examples exist all over the place), but a few dollars less and you would be hard pressed not to consider anything that runs well a "bargain"...

-David

braverichard · #18 10-28-2004, 12:01 AM

I came across yet another 560SEL with 243K miles and zero service records. The dealer was asking for $2,000. Several seat/window motors weren't working in it, otherwise it was in great shape. For some reason, I can't seem to find any that have relatively low mileage and/or have service records in my area. I won't even mind one with high mileage provided I have proof in the form of service records, that the car was taken care of. I don't want to buy one of these cars from eBay, as there are way too many risks of misrepresentation involved. These M-Bs are built tough to withstand a lot of abuse, so the fact that one runs good up to 240K miles doesn't necessarily mean it was well cared for. Things could then start going crazy at that mileage, especially the engine and transmission. Also, from what I've read, these engines generally require a top-end job (valves, head gasket) at around that mileage, so I don't want to get one that's just due for a $3,000 repair!

But for now, I'm temporarily quitting my search. Once my Euro 500SEL is in the condition I wish to have it, then I can look for a good 560SEL.

DaveL · #19 10-28-2004, 02:53 PM

12000 miles per year is considered "low miles", and for an 84 this would mean 240K or so....

-David

braverichard · #20 10-28-2004, 03:11 PM

I understand you very well David, as the national average miles driven per year on each car is 15,000 miles. However, I own quite a few old cars and they all have really low miles, all verified and not bogus: '89 Corolla: 139K; '89 Mazda 929: 128K; '84 300SD: 155K; '84 500SEL: 155K. I generally don't want cars that have really high miles because even with superior engineering, wear and tear will mean I will have quite a bit of items to repair, from stuff like worn seats and dead electric motors to even major leaks from the drivetrain and worn out suspension components. Get what I mean?

Hatterasguy · #21 10-28-2004, 10:31 PM

Well mileage isn't everything age is worse. The problem with 100k miles W126's at this stage in the game is unless it was a weekend or toy car it was driven around town. That means the doors, trans, and suspension have a lot more wear then a highway driven car. Also the interior on a highway driven car is generaly in better condition because usually only 1-2 people are in it at a time. Mine for example was a commuter car so only the drivers seat has a lot of wear. The back seats look like new and the passengers is very nice.

Around town is also harder on the engine, engines like constant speeds it is good for the bearings. Highway driven engines are usually cleaner inside if they were taken care of because everything can burn off.

Now I know of a few "toy" W126's that look like they belong in a show room. They are one owner cars that don't know what rain and snow looks like. But a perfect example like that will run you at least into the mid teens if not closer to $20k. (an SEL not an SEC, SEC's have a higher value)

At this stage any W126 is going to need a lot of work their are probably very few well sorted examples out their. But condition must be judged on a car by car basis.

Is a 100k 300SDL better then a 200k SDL? On ebay the 100k mile one might sell for more but you might not be getting to much more.

braverichard · #22 10-29-2004, 09:57 AM

I can understand what you're saying, but my point remains as I have experienced first hand with my own W126s. Age may generally be worse than mileage but at least with certain miles the drivetrain will have much more life in them regardless of how they were used. Several sensors and such will wear faster with more mileage for a given vehicle's age and will be needing replacements. I know this for sure just by reading threads around here on the sensors, motors and tiny but annoying other things owners of higher mileage cars are replacing now which I don't have to worry about as of yet. For instance, I know that my 500SEL won't be needing a valve job or anything quite involving soon because it still has low miles. Even with city-only driving, such a huge service won't be due prematurely. Also, my 300SD was in pretty much prestine condition when I got it, and I didn't pay with my arm and legs for it.

DaveL · #23 10-29-2004, 05:24 PM

Additional pertinent info:

Before I realized that I could find a w140 for under $10,000, I looked at a few "nice" 560sels.

One that I saw was white, light colored interior, drove and looked near perfect. 110k miles. $4000.

There is also a very nice 560SEC here in town, lots of upgrades, 70k miles, black/black, one owner who has all records. $15,000 (firm)

Mileage and price are not everything. Condition is everything.

There is a guy here in town who has a 535i with 350,000 miles, and I would gladly pay him up to $3000 for the car (even though it "books" at under $1000), as it is just that well maintained.

-David

Hatterasguy · #24 10-29-2004, 05:50 PM

Every $10k W140 I have seen so far needs a lot of work. But A $10k W126 would be a near perfect example. I don't know where you guys dig up the mint W126's but they all seem to be $10k+ in my area. I looked at an 89 or 90 560SEL that was real nice but it needed to have some maintaince caught up, they probably would have sold it for around $7,500-$8,000. A diy could have put another $1,000 and had a mint car. Still it was very clean and in good shape with a fesh paint job.

DaveL · #25 10-29-2004, 06:09 PM

Well, I must have just found "the" deal.

I purchased my 92 500sel, looks exc, runs fine, $7800.

I replaced the front suspension ($500) and then brought it to a reputable "indy" and asked him to "fix everything". The bill was $900, which shows just how clean the car is. ($300 was oil, tranny, diff oil swap). He advised that the tranny would need help in the near future.

10,000 miles later I rebuilt the tranny ($1300 total) and now I'm jammin'.

-David

Hatterasguy · #26 10-29-2004, 06:17 PM

Wow you did get a good deal! I am still felling a little burned from my SDL so I am very very careful around cheap MB's.

Was the evap core ever done? Did it have maintaince records? Thats a good price I would like a W140.

braverichard · #27 10-29-2004, 06:26 PM

My dream car, or rather cars, will be a set of the following two cars: 1999 W140 S600 loaded with every option ($155,000 sticker when new) and a 2005 W220 S500 4MATIC also loaded up ($107,000 sticker new). I'd definitely want the W140 in any form (like an S320) for now. However for some reason all the well maintained ones I come across cost way over $15K

David, you definitely got a great deal on yours. Hopefully I'll be as lucky some day. I plan on acquiring my dream S600 by December 2005. Here's hoping.

I do agree that condition is the main factor affecting the price these old cars can fetch. But even a well maintained car that's in great shape with 400,000 miles won't be very attractive to me especially if it is still running on original engine and transmission. The reason for this being that it is obvious that with such high mileage those things would be needing $$$ spent on them pretty soon.

Hatterasguy · #28 10-29-2004, 06:35 PM

The 1995 S600 was better then the 99. The power went down and MB deleted a few options to keep cost down. It is a sweet car W140 S600's dad has a pristene 1995. That V12 just pulls and pulls it is such a sweet engine.

But you have to be careful because unless you are looking at the speedo 60 feels just like 120.

It kind of misses the Autobahn it really likes going over 100!

I have 3 dream Mercs

I want a CL65 AMG that is black on black.
A CLK-GTR would be pretty sweet.

I would get arrested for doing 200 on I-91 in about 10min but it would be fun for a little while.
And a 6.9 or 6.3 I would enjoy hunting ricers and messing with Vettes.

DaveL · #29 10-29-2004, 06:44 PM

I am the third owner. First owner kept very good records, and maintenance book was up to date (and all original owners manuals,etc., were there).

I am not sure if the evap core has been done, but I can tell that the dash has been taken apart (there is a little foam sticking out from under the a-pillar cover - you would have to be a car expert to find this), and I'm hoping that the core was replaced. The AC blows cold (45F out of the vents during 110F days), and entire HVAC systems appears functional.

Attached is a photo. I added the rims.

The po was advertising the car for $13000, but it said in the ad "must have cash by (date)", and it was the day that I was reading the ad, so I called and he said he would take less (and after finding out he was within 48 hours of foreclosure, a lot less...)

If you like "big Mercedes", then I cannot recommend the 140 highly enough. Comfortable and smooth enough that mom says "wow, this car rides really nice" - little does she know what it will do if you whip it... (Major difference in handling is that it doesn't fall apart in tight (or any) corners. There is a suggestion that the 140 would be more "boaty", but my experience is that if you ride it hard, it responds confidently.)

Interesting note - my dad owned only ONE foreign car in his life (a Mazda RX7, actually bought it for me), and a long list of Chevy's, Buicks, etc. He set a goal that one day he would like to get a car to 100k miles. Despite being a conservative driver, and keeping up on oil changes, etc., he died without success.

For me, 100k miles is "like new"...

-David

braverichard · #30 10-29-2004, 06:48 PM

I'd like a Maybach 62, but that's not a dream that I may be able to fulfill. However, the two cars I already stated that I want I can actually get. Might have to sell my house though. LOL

I prefer the 1999 W140 because it has the new Airmatic DC suspension introduced in 1998. I have driven a pre-98 S-Class and a 1999 S500 with the Airmatic over the exact same roads and the new suspension rides so much better than the old one its unbelievable!!

In fact, the very best S600 would be the 1994 one. In 1995, the S-Class was "cheapened." Lower quality parts were used, options deleted, and base prices reduced by about $5,000. That huge drop represented a huge drop in quality.

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