Help! 95 E320 no/ASR still hesitates $2000 later
 

I have preformed the wiring harness replacement that was desperately needed and have replaced the throttle actuator with some improvement to my problems. But the main symptoms persist listed below. Check engine light on.

Flash codes: LED gives 2, 3, 17, then repeats. Cruise Control inoperative.

Problem: while key is in "ON" position, not started, throttle actuator clicks violently and erratically, also a rapid "relay click" is noticible inside cabin in passenger side dash near kick panel. The relay click inside is also constantly clicking while driving. The idle is high, around 1000-1100. During HARD acceleration the car has a hesitation, sometimes jerking. Please, someone have a holy grail answer for me?

I sent you an email last time you posted in regards to getting the codes stored in the EA/CC module, but did not get a reply, so I left it there .
Are you familiar with getting these codes ?

The EA control unit possibly hasn't relearned the closed throttle position stop yet, especially if you did the work yourself. Sometimes you can hear that some models seem to do this themselves (try putting the key to "on" and waiting a minute or two, you will hear the throttle motor running itself back and forth, like a soft buzzing noise). Other models may need a shop computer to put the EA into the "learn closed throttle position stop" mode.

Gilly

Arthur,
Ummm did not see the e-mail. The procedure I used was to turn the key to "ON" and then depress button next to the LED on the diagnostic terminal for three seconds and release. Flashes 2 times. Repeat the 3 sec. depression with release. Then 3 flashes. Repeat button depression. Then 17 flashes. Do it again and the codes start over again.

From an on-line source my codes are but are for a cabriolet in the same year

code 2 = heated O2 sensor inoperative
code 3 = Lambda control inoperative
code 17 = CAN data exchange-malfunction between control units

could be bad info?

Gilly the noises I hear are much louder than what I would consider a "soft buzz" It is a predominant "click" that is rapid and erratic that is happening inside the throttle actuator. And the relay clicking sound in the cabin

I'm not talking about the noises you are hearing. I am saying you should turn your key to ON (all lights on the instrument panel will be on), then wait a couple minutes. If the EA will relearn the throttle stop by itself you will hear this soft buzzing I am talking about, which is the throttle motor "sweeping" the throttle plate. If you don't hear this noise, it will need to be put on a computer to "force" the EA control module to do this. Did you do the work yourself?

Gilly

Yes I did do the work myself. So, does MB only have the equipment to force this or can independent MBers do it also?

The codes you got from the led/sw combo are from the diagnostic module
that monitors emissions related codes and alerts the operator via the CE lamp that fault/s have been detected and stored.
On that same diagnostic box, you will notice there are other pins. These are there to access other specific modules for code faults.
It is advisable to get these codes to help determine what the computer has detected in each system. This can be done by a DIYer by making a simple led/sw tool [simular to the built-in one you used]. With this tool, you want to go to both pins 14 and pin 8.
14 will tell you if the EA /CC module has detected a system specific fault and identify it, and 8 will do the same for engine HFM management.
This , along with the DM codes you have , gives one more info to help make a diagnosis.
The retrival procedure w/tool is the same as you used on the DM one...
If you get a Single flash , there are NO codes stored on that module...
You want as much info as you can get before changing parts....

Here is a tool pictoral that ,if you are handy and have a Radio Shack near by, will allow you to go get this info.
This tool will also allow clearing of the memory of these modules to get them back to mean, as Gilly has posted.
http://members.aol.com/ajdalton7/ledtool.jpg

Thanks a ton Arthur. Comencing tool construction immediately. In your opinion with these symptoms would the car be ok to drive to work 15mi. one more day?

No idea

PS
If you do get the tool constructed , the hook-up is :
Red bananna [+ ] goes to pin #16 [ 12v power]
Blk Bananna [-] goes to pin #1 [ ground]
Odd colored bananna goes to which ever pin #/module you are extracting codes from [ in your case , pin #14 for EA/CC and #8 for HFM.......]
When you get these , post your findings and I or someone else will tell you what these codes signify/ indicate

I don't think Arthurs tool will allow any access to do "activations", which is the field you need to be in to have the closed throttle position stop "learned".
I believe that higher quality scanners will allow them to access this. If you have an indy in mind, just call and ask them, they should be familiar with this process.

Gilly

PS I am not sure if there would be a code stored for this, I agree that if you can retreive trouble codes that this would be a good start.

Further knowledge gained
 

To Arthur or anyone else with the codes handy.

I have built the tester and it works wonderfully. (An Altoids Mint can works great as a housing also). Anyway, When connecting to pin#14 I cannot receive any code. However, the LED flashes in sync with my described actuator clicking. Also after connecting to pin#8 I get the following additional codes from the tool. 4, 9, 13, 42. Now is there a good diagnosis that can be made? The only other symptom I can give is that I get a small amount of "rotten egg" smell indicating a catalytic converter to this shade tree mechanic. Any Ideas?

Unique messages from HAL (my new car nickname) have been recieved
 

I tried clearing the codes. After 1-2min of running, check engine light on again, on pin#8 code 4, 13, 42 start again. However after sitting with key "ON" for extended periods (not running) throttle actuator clicking takes 20-30 second breaks in between clicks. Now for the intriguing part. During these "breaks" if you will, codes can be obtained from pin#14. I am not sure if I have retrieved all of the codes yet but so far from pin#14, I get code 2 and 9 (still iffy on the nine because of another "click" happened shortly afterward thus having to start reading over again during the next break). This spurs me to think of a sick and dying ECU, only able to sputter codes in between malfunction) or maybe I am putting to much sci-fi thought into this?

P.S. during the click breaks, the throttle actuator humms slightly as gilly describes.

Pin 8
Code 4 (Hot Film MAF sensor air flow implausibly low/open circuit)
Code 9 (O2 sensor voltage too high/implausible/cold or open circuit)
Code 13 (O2 system operating at rich limit or lean limit)
Code 44 (CAN commucnication from EA/CC/ISC control module defective/CAN communication from diagnostic module defective)

Pin 14 ASR
Code 2
Code 9 (Hall effect speed sensor)

Pin 14 Without ASR
Code 2
Code 9 (Rear axle VSS sensor/Incorrect CC/ISC control module installed/ETS Signal)

Appears that you may have Incorrect CC/ISC control module installed if your car is without ASR.

I was getting Pin 8 Codes (13 & 20), DM Codes (3,4 & 19), Pin 14 Codes 7 & 14. (With ASR)

Replacing the Engine Control Module took care of all the codes and the check engine light. I did not have any drivability problems at all, just did not like the check engine light on.

Arthur Dalton will be able to point you in the right direction, he is the expert on these systems and is very helpful.

Cabin click isolated
 

The "relay clicking" sound coming from the cabin has been isolated to the VDO module that is under the passenger side floor mat. Since this "clicking" is in sync with the flashing from my tool on pin #14. I am thinking this is my culprit. Does fastlane sell these? If so, is that the part name?

I think I have a couple used ones. What number is it?

Steve,

I got the part # 124 545 5532. Hope you got one, I just saw what fastlane is asking, and this is breaking the bank for me.

Hmmm?
 

After looking around for my cruise amp VDO. I wonder is a cruise amp and a cruise actuator the same part? If so, this isn't as expensive as I thought. Perhaps Phil can clear this up for me tommorrow? There is about a $1000 diff in other parts suppliers. As far as I can tell, these are the same parts? I will definitely give Phil the call first to confirm his price since I have been happy with the service thus far.

OOps not the same part
 

Ok, so the amp and actuator are not the same but I still see some cruise amps for around $200 +/-. Versus the $1200 +/- at other places. Why me? Anthing worth while takes time........right? Money too I guess.

Have you considered the voltage regulator?
 

Don't know how helpful this will be, but I just dodged the 1000$ TBA bullet by replacing the voltage regulator. I had the ASR and Check Engine light on and was in limp mode. I have a partial warrantee so took it to the dealer who initially said TBA. Ended up being the voltage regulator. If your problems persist, this may be the culptrit. It plays hell with the Check Engine, too.

I have a 95 E320 wagon and the part was $80 retail, about 35 at the local import parts guy.

I had some of the same symptoms on my own car. It turned out that the component compartment cover behind the battery had worked it's way loose. I found the OVP full of water. After I replaced it the idle fluctuation, hesitation, cruise inop, and clicking noise symptoms were gone. After about a year everything is still OK. The clicking noise was the E-GAS control unit switching on and off. I hope this helps.

Arthur,

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but do you know if the home-brew Code Reader tool that you describe for the '95 E320, is also compatible with a '95 E300D?

Thanks

Phil

I do not know .
I emailed you back asking for chassis #, but you did not answer.
I guess it is chassis 121.131, but I have no Diesel books.
Do you have a diagnostic socket box?

Hi Arthur,

Actually I did E-Mail you back but I guess somehow It did not get to you.

In any event, my car is a 124 Chassis, and I do have a diagnostic socket box. Its near the Battery. It has 16 Pins but only 6 of the 16 are live . The rest are just empty holes.

The pins that do have a connector are: 1-2-4-6-7-16.

Apparently there are only very few codes that this car provides, they are:

code cause
2 Engine speed sensor L3 bad
3 ELR temp sensor bad (B11/4
6 ELR (Y22) shorted
8 ELR (Y22) open
9 Control unit (N8, N8/1) faulty.

I just need the means to read, and reset those codes. That's why I asked the question.

Thanks

Phil

I guess I passed your email by ... That is why I mentioned I do not open emails that have no subject line.

Anyway, I guess the reader will work then.
How many pins does your box have?

Arthur,

I just finished editing my last post. It now has the information that you requested.

Phil

OK

If you have the 16 pin , then the tool should work..
Pin 1 will be blk [ neg/gnd], pin 16 will be red [ pos/12v] and the other goes to the other pins that have codes , but I have no info on which is what.
I do have up to 93 EDS and they use pin 4 , but that is just a guess for yours..
You could try each....or maybe someone here knows Diesel codes..

Found more info on 16 pin

5 is ASD , 6 is SRS , and 7 is AC , so 4 should be it....

ECU Fried?
 

See my post about a possible fried ECU:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/100750-misfiring-rough-idle-poor-mpg-undriveable.html

Arthur,

I am not clear on your last 2 post (Posts No. 27, and 28), and am not even sure that I am sure of the concept yet.

In post No 27, ARE YOU SAYING that I should be able to read ALL of the Codes by counting the number of LED pulses on Pin 4, and that with the exception of Pins 1(-) and 16 (+), I don't need to worry about any of the other Pins?, If so than what are the other Pins for?

In post No. 28, when you say that: "5 is ASD , 6 is SRS , and 7 is AC , so 4 should be it...."

a) Are the numbers 5, 6, and 7 Pin Nos, or the number of LED pulses?
b) What do you mean by "so 4 should be it"?

Phil

OK

You asked for possible tool hook-up
The tool has 3 wires
RED, BLK, and ODD color
The blk is - and goes to pin 1 on the "16 pin connector box "
The red is + and goes to pin 16 on the "16 pin connector box"
The reason the tool has these two color banannas is cuz red/blk are standard +/- colors for 12v DC testers/meters.
so, we use the ODD color to go to the different other pins that connect to each different module to get the codes for THAT MODULE.
We use an ODD color so you can't screw up the hook up.....
On the '16 PIN diagnostic box", pin 5 is for the ASD module, pin 6 is for the SRS module, 7 is AC , and 4 is the EDS [ Electronic Diesel System] module.
This should be the module you have the code chart for.. I do not have Diesel code chart, but I belive this #4 is where yuo can go get the codes from if you plug the ODD color Bannana plug in there after you power the tool up with #1 and #16 hooked/plugged as instructed...
Now , you key on, press button 2/3 secs , release , and count the flashes as they come back
that's it
Clraring is same , except it is 8/9 secs after code has flashed....

Arthur,

That's absolutely great info. Crystal clear.

Will built and try it this weekend.

Thanks Again,

Phil

I built the Fault Code Reader described in this thread by Fred, and tried it on my '95 E300D. It works. I was able to retrieve all of the existing fault codes, as well as clear them.

I don't have a check engine light, but I knew that I will find some pre-existing fault codes set into memory. These codes resulted from a past wiring harness problem which I subsequently repaired.

This $8.00 home-built Fault Code Reader is extremely useful, not to mention how cheap it is.


Phil

Back in love after our little scuffle.
 

Many thanks to all who have helped with words of wisdom and experience. I have replaced the EA/CC module (the fancy and expensive cruise amp). All is well. Extra thanks to Arthur and your tool build, (An Altoids Mint can makes a great housing as well) as well as the code translations. Also thanks to Phil at FastLane for providing the right part at a much better price than the stealership. The clicking is gone from the cabin. The hesitation and idle problems are fixed and the cruise works again. The best part was the "easy as pie" replacement which took all of 5 min. So now on to the smaller problems but I hope I can knock them out without having to go to school too much like ......fix the jammed sunroof.......replace power mirror switch...etc. Anyway, while I'm spouting, I have both factory service manuals for a 86-87 W124 chassis, and Engine 103, and an owners manual for the 300E. I would really love to trade them for a set that would cover my 95 E320.... any takers?

Just when I thought I was out of the woods
 

Check Engine light back on today. (Grumble Grumble) :confused: Car runs well but a little sluggish. Pulled the codes here they are.

On Board LED flash

2 = Heated O2 sensor inoperative
3 = Lambda control inoperative
5 = EGR inoperative

Using tool pin#8

9 = O2 sensor
13 = O2 sensor limit
42 = CAN communication?

Using tool pin#14

1 = no codes?

So I am now pondering an O2 sensor replacement. Although with the mild "rotten egg" smell from time to time I believe the Cat Converter is possiby shot as well. So if it is the Cat also how well do the aftermarket "universal fit" units work versus the factory pipe and cat assembly. Any Ideas? Further Diagnosis? Lastly I translated these codes from previous posts, If any seem wrong please let me know.

On these EFI systems, there are a couple of test a DIYer can do to check 02 sens and loop ..

Under the passenger seat is the connector for the 02 sens
If you unplug the signal line , you can take direct 02 sensor readings w/DMM...
The test requires creating engine mixture inputs to the sensor [ ie, you control the mix at the engine and see if the sens responds]
With engine up to temp, you can take the vac hose off the fuel pressure regulator [ plug the hose so you do not have vac leak]. This makes the engine run rich.. look at the meter and see if the reading responds by going close to 1 v.
Next, hook that back up and this time disconnet the vac line going accross to the SOVs in front of the engine . This is your created vac. leak and will cause the engine to run lean.. again, see if the 02 responds to this induced lean fuel mixture...the meter should drop down low [about .1 v.]
You can check the responce speed of the sensor here by simply putting you thumb on that disconnected vac hose end and open/close the leak and watch the meters response to your open/close of the hose end... should be at a good clip..
Also, while you are there,test the heater circuit of the sensor for power and heater ohms. If these test show 02 action, you may want to do some further investigations before changing the sensor..
Now, you will notice that you have an EGR fault on the Emmissions DM..you will also notice that you have 02 sens limit code on the HFM /SFImodule.
So, the 2 questions that arise here are , is the detected limit fault caused by a rich or lean condition.. the flash codes are not refined enough to give you that info [ whereas, a HHT digital scanner will give you a definitive rich/lean condition], but at least for the diy guy, you have something..
So, we just check both.. the first place to look for possible rich limit is the fuel pressure regulator.. when these usually go bad , the diapragm leaks and allows fuel to be sucked into the intake. And at the same time , the reg can not keep the fuel pressure in check and you wind up rich beyond the limits of the 02 sens to correct. So, look here for fuel in the vac line at reg..should be none.
For lean condition, we look around for vac leaks .. hoses everywhere..check them all...
Now, back to the EGR ..if the egr valve is sticking ,[very common on your chaassis and there has even been a part design change /campaigne for sticking EGR--archieves], two interesting things will happen.. The ECU will call for egr opening/closing , but if the egr sticks open when not needed, it will cause an engine lean condition..and the DM sees this as a fault , not only for the egr vac , but also for the 02 sensors reacting to the leanness and not being able to correct..so, a combo code DM-5/HFM -9,13..
A sticking egr shows up as a vac leak, but hard to find for the tech b/c it is internal...

A scope is nice for these jobs, but for you there are some elimination things you may want to try...just for kicks
If the sensor is found bad , just change it [ prob a good idea if it is aged , anyway..but I don't change anything til I have some sort of test/diagnosis.]
Clear the codes you have ..and try it out.
Now, if the sticking egr is suspect [ these are hard to find bc they are intermittent], you can disconnect the egr feed vac hose and plug it [ I use a BB in the line].. now you run the car and wait for the egr code to return, as it will..only this time, it will come back for not opening instead of sticking open..Now, if it comes back WITHOUT the 02 sensor limit code/codes. you can see that it is probable that the egr sticking open was the cause of the lean 02 sensor codes..
That will get you started............
True diagnosis requires better equipment, but these are little things that help the diyer get some benefit form the flash codes, and sometimes lead to solve the problem.
Limit codes usually require adaptation info, so that is where the equipment comes in...

New EGR in my future?
 

Arthur,

I have preformed the tests as described. The results are as follows (this is assuming the 3-wire plug :black, brown and green, on the harness side is the correct plug, there is also a heavier guage green wire that I assumed to be the heater circuit). The green seemed to stay about 12.7 to 13.5v and the brown seemed to be a ground (-). So, I assumed the black to be the signal lead which was .07 to .08v under all circumstances of the fuel pressure reg. disconnect (with vac line plugged) as well as the created vac leak of a disconnected SOVs. So, I am now assuming the engine has a lean condition created by a stuck EGR? I think I'm on the right track here but let me know if you think I am backwards? Thanks again for the help thus far.

Dan

OK.. let try again..
Forget the harness side colors , we want the 02 sensors side ..
So, from the SENSOR , the 2 white wires are heater.. look for 12v feed and heater ohms ...unplug for ohms test only.
The other wire in the 3 prong is gy. That is - 02 sens.. Now , the large green , single wire connector is the 02 sensor SIG . This will turn in to a BLK wire at the single green wire plug on the sens side.
so, on the 02 side.. 2 white are heater, ..blk is 02 sig +, gy is 02 sens -.
That is where you want the DMM sensor reading when you create the lean/rich condition manually at the engine ..
THE sensor GREEN WIRE must be unplugged at the single connector or the 02 sig will get back to the ECU and the ECU will try to CORRECT ...
We do not want ANY correction as we are testing the 02 sens all by itself, as if it were not even in the car . If it does not respond to your created conditions . it is no good.. This is only a 02 sens test. We are only using the engine to send a rich/lean sig of our chosing down the pipe to see if the 02 responds to our creating the "out of wack " a/f mixes...
Note ***
The other 3 prong connector has to remain hooked up b/c we need the heater part of the 02 to be active in order to get the 02 sensor in operating temp range ...so, only unplug the big/single/green connector for this type of test..

Need O2 sensor and a Cat Converter as well?
 

Well, I finally have determined the O2 sensor is bad. I get voltage readings of approx. .03v under all circumstances (rich and lean created mixtures). The question I have now is; After I replace the sensor and I suspect the Cat Converter is clogged partially, will this damage the new sensor by not replacing the cat immediately. Also, if I replace the cat are there any known problems associated with using the "Universal" replacement cat welded in place versus the bolt on OEM replacement. From what I've read searching previous posts, only OBDII cars have problems taking a non OEM cat due to added sensors. I also have considered cutting out the cat altogether since I have the car registered in a non-emission required county. Finally I would like to add that I suspect the cat because, 1. I think it is what is triggering my EGR fault code and 2. My sluggish acceleration could be caused by a clogged cat.
I think my logic works but any ideas are greatly appreciated.