Will I need to repaint this car?
 

On one of the 560's I've been looking at, there's a 2" spot on the front of the hood where the clear coat has peeled. I posted a question abut this in the detailing section but never got a response so I tried an autopainting site.

I was told that this was a sign the clearcoat was failing from the sun. THey said this will just be the beginning of the clear coat coming off.

Here's a photo. Btw, the small specs you see aren't paint damage, that's just dust.
http://www.gigtime.com/spot.jpg

Anyone else experienced this? Other than this spot, a few small scuffs on the front bumper and a couple of very small dings, the paint looks fine on this car.

What does a quality paint job one a 560 run these days? The car is metallic beige.

~Bill

That's not clearcoat failing from the sun - that's clearcoat failing from poor adhesion / bad surface prep in all likelyhood. It's obviously a repaint - not the original factory paint. This raises the question of whether the entire car has been repainted, or just the hood. Hood repaints seem to be extremely common on 10 to 15 year old cars - more often than not. That's a significant question to the cost of repainting the whole car - if the clearcoat is suspect it would all have to come off. The cost of a repaint is one of those pick-a-number exercises - it is whatever you want it to be - $500....$10,000. You are not likely to be happy with anything under $2500 to $3,000 - but that assumes no major substrate issues.

Dean,

That makes a lot more sense to me. When I think if clearcoat failing from the sun, I think of almost bleached out looking sections usually running the width of a hood or trunk lid.

If it's just the hood that was repainted, any idea what the 'pick a number' range would be on that job? This car was at $5995 and lowered to $4995 a few weeks ago. I'm thinking that if it's just the hood, I can negotiate down enough to cover it.

This is a 2nd owner, 88 560sel w/98k with service records from a reputable MB indy. Other than this and some heavy creasing, light cracks in the driver's seat, the car looks perfect. I know I'm going to need to do the timing chain at 100k. Assuming the car passes a PPI, is it worth $4500 knowing that it'll be needing paint all the way around before long?

~Bill

I would be very concerned about the integrity of the whole paint job on the car. As Dean said this is a failure of the clearcoat to bond to the basecoat. It is not something we see too often, but when it does occur, you have big problems. If it came into our shop, I would definately see how much of the car has been painted and price accordingly. I would never paint over any suspect panels without stripping the offending paint off. To do so is really asking for trouble. The costs will probably make this project economically unfeasable. :(

Look at the door jams if it was repainted you will be able to tell.

For less than $5000 on a car like that with less than 100,000 miles, buff it out and forget it. The car is worth so much as a decent automobile that I would certainly overlook a minor paint defect.

The failure is the surface of the undercoat from UV damage beneath the clear coat, may be factory paint. Nothing will stand up to Florida sunshine forever! This is also the reason so many GM and Chrysler white paint coats fail -- the topcoat is SO thin it cannot protect the primer from UV degredation, and eventually it disintegrates, leaving the top coat free. Once it's cracked from thermal expasion or a stone chip, etc, it just peels off.

Proper repair will require sanding down the hood at least to the original paint and prepping properly for a re-paint.

I hate cheapo paint jobs, I'd personally MUCH prefer the sun damaged paint, it's considerably less hassle and expense to fix properly that the mess a cheap paint job makes!

I've got the problem on all of my current Benzes -- the 280 has a really crappy laquer job on top of the factory paint that is crazing and cracking through the original paint, ruining both. The TE has a similar mess on the hood, but I can at least correct that without major pain since it's only the hood, not the entire car. The 220D has a crap spray job (VERY thick paint) and it's peeling in places. Not a real problem since it's so rusty elsewhere, but an annoyance.

The worst is the 300D -- crappy paint job done cheap, the whole car except the top is so badly orange peeled it won't take a shine with good wax, all the black trim has overspray on it, and I will have to sand the ENTIRE mess off to fix it. Grrrrr!

We had very good luck on my brother's 75 300D by sanding down to the factory e-coat (not through if possible) and repainting with Dupont catalyzed enamel. I'm not fond of the color he picked, and he had terrible problems with it refusing to flatten (very wet and cold day when he painted it), but when it when on right, perfect. Lot a work, though, and I'd not expect to spend less than $3000 to get a similar job if I removed all the trim, etc, before sending the car to be painted.

Peter

Sure, it sounds to me like the car would be worth $4500 - low miles and nice overall condition. I'd be more comfortable if it was just the hood that had been repainted. You'd be amazed how long the factory paint can last if the car is garaged.

Sorry, what are substrate issues?

I spoke to the owner tonight and asked if it had been repainted.
He said not in the six years he's had it and, as far as he knows
(but he's not positive) not by the original owner.

He did say he and his wife both had 560SEL's. His was white and
had a similar problem, his son has that car now. This one was his
wife's.

I'm going to get a bodyshop recommendation from the German
Auto House in Austin tomorrow and take it to them before paying
for a PPI on the car.

Thanks,

Bill

Substrate just means the foundation - what's underneath. Let us know what the body shops finds.

peeling clear coat
 

Lots of car manufacturers had lots of problems with long term durability of clearcoats when they switched to low volatiles paint. Silvers seem to be the worst, but any color can fail. Takes sanding affected panels down to base color and respraying. Down here in Houston, it costs $50-75 per panel to strip to base, that much more per coat --color then clear. If it really bugs you --not having a PERFECT pain job--go spend $65K for a new one with its imperfect paint job. MBZ paint jobs are no better than 3rd class anyway--they don't rust, but are far far from 1st class.

We're getting a little off the subject here - but it is amazing how bad new Mercedes paint jobs are - compared to Toyota for example. New Toyotas don't have orange peel - while new Mercedes have so much you would think they were striving for that effect. And there's apparently a lot of people, in England and the coast of California, for example, that think the new paint jobs do rust.

I've got a Silver 2002 Toyota Rav4 and the paint is excellent, looks as new as the day I bought it. Haven't looked at new MB paint jobs, way beyond my budget.

I'll post what I find out from the body shop. If it's just the hood, I'll probably go with this one. If not, the car in Phoenix will be a better deal even though I'll have to travel to get it and pay $5500.

I can't say enough how big a help this forum has been.

~Bill

If you look at most MB paint jobs, they have always had quite a bit of orange peel especially on the vertical surfaces such as the sides. My 1991 560 SEL had it, my 300CE had it, my CLK's had it, my S and CL have it and if I recall the older MB cars that I owned likewise had it. I would not say that the new, environmentally friendly paints are the problem but the process itself is what creats this. My Lexuses or Lexi are practically free of any orange peel and do have a flatter paint job than MB but in addition the paint is much softer in my opinion.

Lou K

Back to the car in question, I would want to know if it had been repainted, of course. But, I would also want to know WHY it had been repainted. After all, the car could have been in a serious wreck.

Thanks,
Richard

It's going to run $450 to repaint the hood on the taupe `88.

Neither the car nor the hood had been repainted. Both the body shop and the MB indy I spoke with said it can be as simple as a tiny speck of dirt landing on the hood when the car was originally painted.

The owner of the car had two 560SEL's, his and his wife's. According to the indy, he maintained them meticulously. This one was his wife's and he'd bring it in whenever she heard anything. I'm going to get the PPI done either tomorrow or Wednesday. If all's well, I'll buy it.

I also looked at a car owned by the indy. I'd mentioned this one in another thread.

This was a black `89 with 110k for $5295. It was a beautiful car, very clean Palamino interior but it had a rust spot on the back window in the corner. A piece of trim that sits in front of the rear wheel had come off but they had the piece and were supposed to replace it. The chrome trim around the driver's door was loose.

It had an ancient in-dash Whistler radar detector mounted to the right of the headlight switch. No cracks in the console.

The wheels and tires were replaced with 16" rims and new tires from a later S series. Probably the bigger issue for me was that the car has had four or five owners. Records are incomplete on it, they couldn't even tell me if the timing chain had been replaced.

They've replaced a window regulator, the left tie-rod end, the hydroshock for the rear end and the A/C condenser. The car drove well and the AC was ice cold. On the freeway, I heard a slight squeal when the A/C kicked in.

Even though they're an MB indy shop, they didn't object to me taking it to another shop for a PPI. In fact, they even offered to have their runner drop it off for me since I live about 45 mintues outside the city.

Even though I prefer black to taupe, I think a 2 owner 88 that's been well taken care of and has service records is a rarer find for under $5k. The `88 needs the hood painted and the rims need to be refinished or replaced. Either of those projects can wait until after I replace the timing chain.

Whereas I would need to take care of the rust problem on the `89 right away. The `89 looks sharp but I'm worried that it might be a money pit and the rust scares me.

~Bill