Early w140: Worst case scenario?
 

Many early gas w140 MB's are priced in a very attractive manner these days. However, I'm under the impression that an old w140 may be $15k to buy, but $15k a year to run. What's the story? What breaks most often and how expensive is it to fix/replace. How DIY friendly is it?

There are a lot of threads about this - what 140 is it?
All early 140's had front suspension problems because of weight. Evaporator cores are a major headache and expense. Most 300SD's are trouble waiting to happen - some never seem to have problems - engine wise. Door closing assists seem to be a major headache. Wiring harnesses on the '95 and some '96s were biodegrabable - too much so.
The 600SEL/S600s are very expensive to maintain. A search will turn up more info for you.

140 woes
 

I have a 92 500 SEL all of those things have gone wrong since the warranty ran out in 96. If you think about it that is in the last ten years. I figure 2K /year and some is maintenance. If you get one with good records you will see what has been done. The most expensive (AC $4K), (Bose $.7K), (Close assist $ .8) motor mounts, suspension parts, brakes, tune ups are maintenance. Find one that has been serviced you will be happy!

It's not $15k to buy - more like $7500. There's a lot of nice cars available for well under 10 grand. At this rate people will soon be giving them as gifts - but only to people that they don't like. They are the modern day version of the 6.3 and 6.9 - overbuilt and seemingly bargains - but they don't actually have a useful purpose given the cost of keeping them on the road.

LOL good point on the Kia, won the J. D. Power INITIAL Quality...

If I was the on the team that designed that car, I would have been insulted. :D

Killed In Action
Korean Invading America
Korea Invades America
Keep In Attic

Sorry, I love those acronyms!

I have had the pleasure of driving a 140, it was fantasic! I really like that S class car, but it is much too big for me! I am sure it is an excellent family hauler when it behaves. :dancefool

I agree with inetd. They are great cars WHEN MAINTAINED - especially from the get go. They are much more intolerable of shody maintenance than some other MBs. I would not put them in the same league as the 6.3s or 6.9s. They are so much better (maybe I should say "modern") than these two - don't want to start a bashing thread on this, please.
Keep in mind that many of the 140 series cars were "leases" with people not maintaining them as a typical MB enthusiast would. I can't imagine paying that kind of money for something and then allowing it to become derelict.
If you like power - go for the 500 series. If you want "fuel economy" (I almost couldn't type that one out without guffawing) then go with the inline 300 series.
My personal dream car would be the later model S500 140 series.
Unless you have a trust fund and are not faint-of-heart, stay away from the 600 series.

It is unique for someone who does not own one to comment, on the issues (i guess you might have had one).
If I could buy a clean late 140, I would! There is nothing like the ride, comfort,
and does not compare with my 01 E, my 89 SEC, or SL...or any of the others, now the ML was junk!
The 220s are plastic!

The early 140's (pre-96) are a big headache to maintain, even if they have been properly serviced. They just have too many issues that were later resolved for the final years of production.

Although, as mentioned before, not all issues were solved. ALL 140s, even late production ones, suffer from A/C evac problems, power assited door closing pump failures (constant and EXPENSIVE$!$!$!$), extreme tire ware (due to its weight), rear power window bracket failures, some electric/electronic gremlims... not to mention the high price of parts for regular maintenance.

Early 140s, among many things, suffer from retractable trunk handle, side power foldable mirrors, all power windows, remote door loock, radio amplifier and hydraulic suspension failures.

Your best bet is a 1997-1999, well maintained, low mileage S320-S500 - stay away from the 600s.

As a proud 140 owner, I can tell you it is the best built, best piece of machinery I have ever had the pleasure to drive. Just because of that, I put up with its out of ordinary maintenance nightmares.

W140s are worth nutthin' these days. My brother finally sold his last week, after having it on the market for several months. A 1997 S320, quite clean, about 60K miles, came off Starmark 6 months ago so everything works. He got $16K after waiting and turning down several lower offers.

At that price I wouldn't be considering any earlier cars. And it looks like a viable alternative to spending $30K on a new ES300/G35/C230 etc. Half price for the purchase, the other half a fund for the inevitable maintenace & repairs.

- JimY

Here's a neat twist on the original poster's question.. something I've been thinking about also..

What is the cost of repairing all of the "common" stuff on a W140, assuming none of it has been done?

I would personally plan to spend about 50-70% of that number (considering that some of it was "probably done but there are no receipts to back it up, some of it will never fail, etc.) Correct me if this isn't a reasonable assumption.

The numbers I've come up with are:

$3000 evaporator
$500 Bose amp rebuild
$700 door assist pump
$700 wiring harness

Anything to add to my list? I'm assuming the car has decent tires when purchased and doesn't have any major steering problem (this can be easily determined by putting the car on a lift and/or an aggressive test drive)

So the number I have in my head for planned W140 repairs is about $2500-3500 assuming the above list is all I need to worry about.

A question for all: Can prior replacement of any of the above items be determined by an experienced MB tech, assuming no service records? I don't think a rebuilt bose amp or assist pump looks different from the original. But is any of the evaporator visible by removing a few dash components? If there is *no* cracking anywhere in the wiring harness can it be assumed that it has been replaced? Is there another way to tell?

Neal

Cost of repairs on the 140 are high, but if you are willing to repair it yourself and do you own part search. You should be able to find good prices.

For example, I was able to find a new vacuum pump on door locks for $425 on the Internet. Of course, member in the Mercedes Shop Forum can provide help in most repairs.

Jack

With the sticker on a 1992 300Se being $69,000.00 in 1992, repairing the afore mentioned items is well worth it for the ride and comfort the 140 provides. Mine has had the wiring harness replaced, trans valve body and 5th gear solenoid replaced along with the inner trans wire harness, new bearings and seal in the differential (200K miles), rear wheel bearings, and now a valve job and timing chain. Next up the front end and the a/c evaporator. All window risers and motors replaced and new capacitors replaced in the Bose sound system. Total should end up at about $12,000.00 and having paid $13,500.00 I will have 150K to 200K more miles on a beautiful luxury car, and I have put 100K on it already. The numbers add up for me.

Tim

I agree, a theoretical bill of US$12-15,000 for major repairs on a W140 compared to its original sticker prices and the pleasure of owning and driving simply the best over-engineered vehicle ever produced is peanuts.

The problem is that certain problematic issues tend to repeat their failure in a very short time, so the original amount can multiply quite quickly and exponentially.

For example: the a/c EVAP is known to fail due to its combination of alluminun and copper for its construction (these two metals don't mix quite well). If you replace the failed evap with an original M-B unit, it should fail again sooner or later. A full copper evap is available in some markets and warrantied for at least ten years, although is much more expensive than the original.

I was unaware that an all-copper evaporator was available. Any leads on where they can be obtained and what they cost?

Tim

Some time ago there was one on ebay. I can't remember what it went for. I imagine that you could do a search on google and come up with something. It would be worth the extra money for the warranty alone!

The A/C evap on my E 320 T failed just one year after the warranty expired (M.B.s are warrantied here only for ONE year). The dealer offered to split 50/50 the cost on labor and parts to replace it with an original unit(copper/alluminun), so I decided to go to an independent shop and have a full copper unit installed.

The A/C evap on the S 500 L died just one month before the warranty expired, so the local M.B. dealer replaced it free of charge (labor and parts) with an original unit which have not yet failed (knock on wood!).

The full copper evap installed on the E 320T was imported from Germany but cannot remember the name of the manufacturer. I should find out next week with the independent shop and let you know.

The all copper evaporator is made by ACM.

I clicked on the "Buy Parts" link at the top of the page, and this website sells them for $800 for your '92 300SE.

http://catalog.eautopartscatalog.com/mercedesshop/sophio/wizard.jsp?partner=mercedesshop&clientid=mercedesshop&baseurl=http://catalog.peachparts.com/&cookieid=1DU0VMRXB1GR0Z2FW3&year=1992&make=MB&model=300-SE-002&category=All&part=A%2FC+Evaporator

I could never live in Atlanta, just because of how much the dealer charges to work on cars!!! Here in N.C., the dealer charges $80/hr. The Rolls-Royce dealership in Winstom-Salem doesn't even charge $110/hr, I think that something is wrong here.