Some people say that the hub has to be change in order to put the 600SL brake in the 190/300E. Some people say that this is just a direct swap beside considerating the size of the wheels. What is true? Does any one did it? Any inside experience can be shared?

Harry

I put 400E brakes on my 190E 2.6 at all four corners. Coupled with Motul 600 brake fluid, SS brakelines and Axxis metal master brake pads, the 190 brakes so well it almost makes you sick!

I can not imagine needing anything more on a 190E, as my car now outbrakes my Corvette, my old M3 and my old C36! All this for roughly $960 dollars!

Visit my web page for more details of the installation.

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1993 500E
http://2phast.com/500e/500e-sig.jpg

I actually have a '92 300E. The weight is a bit heavy than a 190E. Therefore I am thinking about the 600SL upgrade instead of a 400E brake upgrade that I original planned for. I know lots of people in the forum suggest the 400E brake upgrade because of the simplicity and the uncertainty about the hub in swapping to 600SL brake. That's why I try to find out exactly what has to be done on a 600SL brake upgrade to the 300E. Any other input?

Harry

Harry,

read my really long post on page 1 of this thread.

As stated earlier, to go to 600SL brakes you would need to change everything from the steering knuckle out. The same holds true for 500SL and 500E brakes. They are ALL R129 parts. There is no uncertainty about it.

__________________
'94 W124.036 249/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'93 W124.036 199/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs, up in flames...LITERALLY!
'93 W124.036 481/040 leder; euro delivery; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'88 R107.048 441/409 leder; Euro lights
'87 W201.034 199/040 leder; Euro lights; EvoII brakes; 8x16 EvoIs - soon: 500E rear brakes
'70 R113.044 050/526; factory alloys; Euro lights

YHLiem,

I remember you mention that the hub is different. However, there is some people in the forum say that the 400 and 500 are interchangable and the 500 and the 600sl are also interchangable. Thus, the 400 and the 600SL is interchangable. If you can put the 400 on the 190, you should be able to put the 600sl on the 190 thus the 300E. What do you think?

Harry

harry,

the 500E, 500SL and 600SL brakes are, indeed, interchangable. however, the 400E is NOT interchangable with the others.

The upgrade from 300E to 400E is restricted to the calipers themselves, and possibly the booster and master cylinder.

However, if you wish to upgrade the calipers on your 300E you're better off going with 400E/300CE calipers. You'll never need 500E/SL calipers on your 300E unless you track the car.

__________________
'94 W124.036 249/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'93 W124.036 199/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs, up in flames...LITERALLY!
'93 W124.036 481/040 leder; euro delivery; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'88 R107.048 441/409 leder; Euro lights
'87 W201.034 199/040 leder; Euro lights; EvoII brakes; 8x16 EvoIs - soon: 500E rear brakes
'70 R113.044 050/526; factory alloys; Euro lights

I just got a mail from a reputable source saying that the 600SL brake caliper can bolt right on to the 190. This information is given by someone have 3 race 190 and all have the 600SL brake on those car.

I really don't know who to beleive. Can any one give me some idea about what is true?

Harry

not to discredit anyone, but it is MY personal belief that since MB has spent millions of dollars designing, engineering and building these cars, that if you should not half-ass anything. if you want to just change the calipers and nothing else, it is your perogative. just because one CAN do something does not mean that they SHOULD.

my sugestion to anyone re: brakes is that if you want to make the jump from a 190 to 600sl brakes, change the whole system: calipers, rotors, master cylinder and booster. don't forget that a race car is significantly lighter than a fully equipped MB.

certain components are designed to work in conjunction with certain other components and therefore all should be upgraded, not just the ones you want to upgrade.

look at the simple difference in size of the components. there is significantly more forces being applied to all of the components. alot more heat is generated too. if the specific heat capacity of the fluid does not change, where does all the extra heat go? some gets vented off by the larger, vented rotors, but not all. you've also increased the unsprung weight of the car and thus the monemtum and weight that the associated components have to deal with.

which is why I maintain that the parts listed in my previous post are not compatible. compatibility is far more than whether the parts will fit. will they ensure the same if not greater life as well as performance as the old parts?

you can probably load windows XP onto a pentium I 150MHz box with 32 MB ram, but will it function properly? prolly not.

again, it's your perogative to just change the calipers, but do you really want to take that great a risk with your life? once again, that's just my personal philosophy. coming from a family of engineers and mechanical designers gives me a slightly different view of these sorts of things. just my (long) $0.02

__________________
'94 W124.036 249/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'93 W124.036 199/040 leder; 8.25x17 EvoIIs, up in flames...LITERALLY!
'93 W124.036 481/040 leder; euro delivery; 8.25x17 EvoIIs
'88 R107.048 441/409 leder; Euro lights
'87 W201.034 199/040 leder; Euro lights; EvoII brakes; 8x16 EvoIs - soon: 500E rear brakes
'70 R113.044 050/526; factory alloys; Euro lights

An excellent way of looking at things. I agree.

I have also not found any MB that had lacking brakes. Okay, my 16V chewed them up bad, but we're talking about a race-track weekend. I have no idea of why anyone with a 190E would need 600SL brakes.

Our C36 had much larger brakes than the C280 that the car was based on, but all the braking components were upgraded in some form or another.

The C230 has smaller brakes and less robust components, but is much less capable of generating such speed in such a short distance. That said, the C230 is still capable of outbraking most "regular" cars on the road.

If I owned an E420/400E, I might consider tires before brakes. The braking power of my C230 when I was running S-02PP's on the car was shocking due to the adhesion of the tires. This didn't help with race-track durability, but for "panic-stop" braking, big brakes don't do a durn bit of good when tires can't grip.

Now, if your car is upgraded in the power dept. then you should talk to an expert. And not about "parts fitting", but about a real braking solution for your car. When I was racing we called it "make it right from pedal to pads."

__________________
John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

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